5-4 is a podcast about how much the Supreme Court sucks. Hosted by Peter Shamshiri, Rhiannon Hamam, and Michael Liroff, it's a progressive and occasionally profane take on the ideological battles at the heart of the Court's most important landmark cases and an irreverent tour of all the ways in which the law is shaped by politics.
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5-4 is a production of Prologue Projects.


Trans erasure. Anti-intellectualism. Culture war. Moral panic. These are a few of the Supreme Court’s favorite things!If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.]5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Andrew Parsons. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Trump v. Orr

These days, three degrees of separation from a drug dealer is all it takes to get you drone struck by the U.S. government in Venezuela. And look, maybe these extrajudicial killings aren’t exactly legal, but the bigger problem for all you sissy justice lovers out there is that this administration doesn’t care about the law. If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Fire at Will: Trump’s Illegal War in the Caribbean [TEASER]

*** An earlier version of this episode incorrectly referred to the asylum officers who conduct credible fear interviews as border patrol agents. ***If the government is acting all authoritarian-y, detaining you in violation of your rights, there’s a basic assumption in the Constitution that you can use “The Great Writ” of habeas corpus to challenge that unlawful behavior. But Samuel Alito would like to remind you what happens when you ASS U ME. Something something immigrants, something something you’re wrong. So yeah, Constitution HUMILIATED.If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Department of Homeland Security v. Thuraissigiam

You&#39;ve heard about all the Supreme Court cases about how immigration law is different, about how ICE&#39;s powers are different, about how the Trump administration can do whatever it wants…on this episode, Rhiannon talks to Leqaa Kordia&#39;s lawyers about what all this means for a Palestinian woman in ICE detention right now. The good news is: our liberation is interconnected, and we can fight the good fight.Sign the Free Leqaa Petition: <a href="https://secure.everyaction.com/6U1ygBt6eUK-Ycw0c-_bNw2?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGnV_iAtNqMcHkNolDi68OsA3HWcp_0jWpC3fwI32Y93lVJjK3PfYH_efzdZCw_aem_3fk_KUpxVS70vaPW_6BKlQ" rel="nofollow">Free Leqaa Campaign</a> Follow the Free Leqaa Campaign on Instagram: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/freeleqaakordia/" rel="nofollow">https://www.instagram.com/freeleqaakordia/</a> Hear Leqaa in her own words: <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/detained-the-last-columbia-protester/id207505466?i=1000735106793" rel="nofollow">https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/detained-the-last-columbia-protester/id207505466?i=1000735106793</a> New Yorker article: <a href="https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-last-columbia-protester-in-ice-detention" rel="nofollow">https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-last-columbia-protester-in-ice-detention</a>  If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.﻿5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

“What’s at Stake is Everything”: The Last Columbia Protester in ICE Detention

The Supreme Court tramples upon your most sacred right: the right to complain about your co-workers.If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Garcetti v. Ceballos

You know things are really bad when federal judges–historically an extremely reticent group–are sounding the alarm about the chaos and confusion the Supreme Court is reaping these days. Never fear, Amy Coney Barrett is here to remind all of us that everything is fine, because the shadow docket is not a big deal, originalism is fun and interesting, and she&#39;s a real human mother.If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Panic! In The Federal Judiciary [TEASER]

I think we can all agree that the Constitution guarantees every individual certain unalienable rights–oh wait, sorry, getting a call. Right. Sorry. Okay. Yea. Got it. Hey, so I think we can all agree that immigration law is different from other laws, and the Constitution doesn’t really apply there.If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Lopez-Mendoza

On this episode of Popular Cradle, (Rhiannon’s other podcast!), she interviews Columbia grad student Mahmoud Khalil, who was detained by ICE for more than 100 days earlier this year. You can find Popular Cradle wherever you listen to podcasts. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Rhiannon Interviews Mahmoud Khalil

Feels like we should be able to collectively wrestle with the problems of a system by which 14 million people will die in the next five years because one man can decide to withhold a bunch of money that Congress said needed to be spent, but unfortunately, because of the law, and what the law says, no one can sue about it. Good luck with figuring this one out.If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Department of State v. AIDS Vaccine Advocacy Coalition

Do you ever feel…like a plastic bag, drifting through the wind, wanting to start again? That’s understandable because battles over free speech and the First Amendment are raging right now, whether on the internet, on TV, in the workplace, or in the streets. But baby, you’re a firework. And the Trump administration can’t take that from you.If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

Free Speech, Chilled to Perfection [TEASER]

You are getting very sleepy…you are getting very sleepy…HEY! Wake up. It may look like the slate of cases for this Supreme Court term doesn&#39;t have many fundamental constitutional rights hanging in the balance, but don’t be lulled into thinking any of this is low stakes. Voting rights, trans people in sports, the death penalty—they’re still on that legal fascism grind, down to every little gear and lever.If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

2025-2026 Supreme Court Term Preview

Papers, please. The hallmark of fascist states of eras past and your favorite movie about authoritarianism is now also the official policy of the United States, with the Supreme Court’s blessing. But don’t worry, you (probably) won’t be stopped, unless you kinda look Hispanic or shop at Home Depot! I feel safer already.If you&#39;re not a 5-4 Premium member, you&#39;re not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/support" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com/support</a>.5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at <a href="http://fivefourpod.com/" rel="nofollow">fivefourpod.com</a> Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out GiveWell and use our code 54 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org * Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR Advertising Inquiries: <a href='https://redcircle.com/brands'>https://redcircle.com/brands</a>

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5-4

…

Prologue Projects

#292

Trump v. Orr

#291

Fire at Will: Trump’s Illegal War in the Caribbean [TEASER]

#290

Department of Homeland Security v. Thuraissigiam

#289

“What’s at Stake is Everything”: The Last Columbia Protester in ICE Detention

#288

Garcetti v. Ceballos

#287

Panic! In The Federal Judiciary [TEASER]

#286

Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Lopez-Mendoza

#285

Rhiannon Interviews Mahmoud Khalil

#284

Department of State v. AIDS Vaccine Advocacy Coalition

#283

Free Speech, Chilled to Perfection [TEASER]

#282

2025-2026 Supreme Court Term Preview

#281

Noem v. Vasquez Perdomo