In this episode of Unchained, Laura is joined by Rob Hadick, General Partner at Dragonfly, and Sam MacPherson, Co-founder and CEO of Phoenix Labs, to break down the fast-moving world of stablecoins and stablechains.
They discuss Ethena’s USDe $5 billion drop, the rise of “stablecoin-as-a-service” models, the emergence of payment-focused blockchains like Tempo and Codex, and the return of TradFi heavyweights like Visa, Mastercard, and Western Union to the digital dollar race.
From liquidity challenges to regulatory shakeups and tokenized deposits, the conversation explores what it really takes to win the stablecoin wars, and, importantly, whether any of these players can even make a scratch to king Tether.
Thank you to our sponsors!
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<a href="https://binance.onelink.me/y874/Unchained">Binance</a>

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Guests:
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<a href="https://x.com/hadickm">Rob Hadick</a>, General Partner at Dragonfly
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<a href="https://x.com/hexonaut">Sam MacPherson</a>, Co-founder and CEO of Phoenix Labs
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Links:
Previous coverage on Unchained:
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCCNlnywgIc">Stablecoins Are Popping Up Everywhere. What’s the End Game?</a>
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAFQE5Jas_A">Why Every Chain Suddenly Wants Its OWN Stablecoin - The Chopping Block</a>
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Timestamps:
🎬 0:00 Intro and ads: Binance
📉 1:09 Why Ethena’s USDe plunged from $15B to $10B
🔮 5:34 Rob’s view on the future of Ethena
💸 7:06 Why Spark exited Ethena despite being an early believer
⚔️ 11:32 Protocol-native stablecoins—and why Rob and Sam disagree about the trend
💡 21:03 What it really takes to win the stablecoin wars + what makes Tempo's strategy “interesting”
💳 32:11 Tether’s USAT launch: can it succeed?
🏦 36:27 How Tether and Ripple are using the same acquisition playbook
🔥 39:40 Plasma’s emissions strategy and whether it’s sustainable
🏛️ 44:10 Inside Circle’s Arc testnet and its 100+ institutional partners
⛓️ 51:08 Codex and the debate: should stablechains be L1s or L2s?
💵 56:42 How Spark aims to stand out in the new wave of stablecoin competition
🏢 1:00:04 Why TradFi players are entering the space with so much strength
🚀 1:06:04 Why Rob remains so bullish on the future of stablecoins

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