Democratic socialists are having a moment. But can they actually remake the Democratic Party — and the American economy — in their image? My guest today, Bhaskar Sunkara, is longtime democratic socialist, and he makes the case that socialism has a universal appeal that transcends our current politics and will ultimately triumph against capitalism.
<ul>
 <li>0:00 Intro</li>
 <li>1:24 The rise of democratic socialism</li>
 <li>5:00 Why is this a breakthrough moment for Democratic Socialism?</li>
 <li>8:24 Class Realities: The demographics of socialist voters</li>
 <li>9:26 The intellectual foundations of the American left</li>
 <li>11:02 What socialists want: Affordable housing, Medicare for All</li>
 <li>15:55 Socialist housing policy: construction, rent control, public housing</li>
 <li>18:17 The socialist approach to AI and technological change</li>
 <li>22:16 The case for unions</li>
 <li>24:18 Is Democratic Socialism compatible with capitalism?</li>
 <li>25:57 Class conflict vs. the identity politics of the wokeness era</li>
 <li>29:00 The ideological conflict between Hillary Clinton liberals and the Bernie Sanders left</li>
 <li>30:40 This Socialist wants the left to stop hating America</li>
 <li>36:38 Why Israel-Palestine and anti-imperialism are central issues for Democratic Socialists</li>
 <li>45:51 Luigi Mangione and the illiberal left</li>
 <li>50:37 Is Zohran Mamdani a moderate?</li>
 <li>51:54 Was Joe Biden's presidency a socialist experiment?</li>
 <li>55:42 Raising taxes to expand the welfare state</li>
</ul>
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@InterestingTimesNYT" rel="noopener noreferrer">Interesting Times with Ross Douthat</a>.
<blockquote>Subscribe today at <a href="http://nytimes.com/podcasts">nytimes.com/podcasts</a> or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher">https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher</a>. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.</blockquote> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See <a href="https://pcm.adswizz.com">pcm.adswizz.com</a> for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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