When President Trump didn’t annihilate “a whole civilization” on Tuesday, as he had threatened to do, much of the world exhaled. But the damage of his statements — a U.S. president, the commander in chief of the world’s most powerful military, threatening to commit war crimes — continues to linger in the shadow of an uncertain cease-fire.
Trump did not destroy Iran, but he may be destroying another civilization: ours.
Fareed Zakaria is the host of CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS” and the author of “Age of Revolutions” and other books. In this conversation, we discuss whether Trump’s threats on Truth Social worked as a negotiating tactic, the significance of crossing this kind of moral line and how the decline of American leadership is already reshaping the world.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
<a href="https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393239232" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Age of Revolutions</a> by Fareed Zakaria
“<a href="https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/predatory-hegemon-walt" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Predatory Hegemon</a>” by Stephen M. Walt
“<a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2026/03/13/britain-empire-trump-iran-decline/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Iran is an imperial trap. America walked right in.</a>” by Fareed Zakaria
Book Recommendations:
<a href="https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300271010/a-world-safe-for-democracy/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">A World Safe for Democracy</a> by G. John Ikenberry
<a href="https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/I/bo5864609.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Irony of American History</a> by Reinhold Niebuhr
<a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/354836/the-quiet-american-by-graham-greene/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Quiet American</a> by Graham Greene
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast</a>, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs</a>.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our recording engineer is Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Jack McCordick, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
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