Behind the intense political movements of the last decade, from Trumpism to wokeness and back again, there’s a strange and erratic rhythm. Movements saturate the culture seemingly overnight, only to evaporate or spark backlash just as rapidly. We’re extremely politically engaged, yet we’ve rarely felt so powerless to create lasting policy change.I haven’t seen many very successful attempts to explain what is driving this volatility. But one concept that has taken off recently, and captures what so many of us are feeling, is “hyperpolitics.”The idea comes from Anton Jäger, a historian and contributing writer to New York Times Opinion. In his book “Hyperpolitics: Extreme Politicization Without Political Consequences,” Jäger theorizes what it means to live in a moment marked by hyper-engagement — high voter turnout, mass protests, trends that flare up and fade with extreme rapidity — yet where institutional trust is low, institutional relationships are decayed and people are disconnected from the structures that make political efforts stick.I think Jäger’s theory cuts to the core of this political era. So I invited him on the show to break down what hyperpolitics is, how we got here and what it actually takes to build lasting change today.Mentioned:“<a href="https://www.versobooks.com/products/3460-hyperpolitics?srsltid=AfmBOoqtgnYe3KmEJn_oAO06CnF9NfZbs7M1wPSUNd1RqeMQKEBQxyob" rel="noopener noreferrer">Hyperpolitics: Extreme Politicization Without Political Consequences</a>” by Anton Jäger“<a href="https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii159/articles/anton-jager-hyperpolitics-in-command" rel="noopener noreferrer">Hyperpolitics in Command?</a>” by Anton Jäger“<a href="https://www.ft.com/content/58131558-c33f-4f52-8bf4-1a2b8ed542d0" rel="noopener noreferrer">Trump’s Revolutionary Sense of Time Is Changing Politics</a>” by Ivan Krastev“<a href="https://archive.org/details/publicopinionhar0000walt/page/n7/mode/2up" rel="noopener noreferrer">Public Opinion</a>” by Walter Lippmann&nbsp;Book Recommendations:“<a href="https://www.versobooks.com/products/40-the-prophet?srsltid=AfmBOoojN_4m2jbAyzbtV618_u4S32xWH6M5c-zPHAI-V-18znq4MkBq" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Prophet</a>” by Isaac Deutscher“<a href="https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/cheese-9781846884160/" rel="noopener noreferrer">Cheese</a>” by Willem Elsschot“<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Quelques-mois-dans-vie-Octobre/dp/2080435809" rel="noopener noreferrer">Quelques mois dans ma vie</a>” by Michel Houellebecq“<a href="https://www.rizzolibookstore.com/product/whatever?srsltid=AfmBOorGafqsQLMcvnEmxGlbtoOaxuIJ9lb-bjHNQ5zhf_MDiJXQcHa9" rel="noopener noreferrer">Extension of the Domain of Struggle (Whatever)</a>” by Michel Houellebecq“<a href="https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250758088/serotonin/" rel="noopener noreferrer">Serotonin</a>” by Michel HouellebecqThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at <a href="mailto:ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com" rel="noopener noreferrer">ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com</a>.You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html</a>This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Marie Cascione. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Gautam Srikishan. Our recording engineer is Aman Sahota. Cinematography by Marina King and Azamat Yakubov. Video editing by Dani Dillon and Arpita Aneja. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Shows is Annie-Rose Strasser.&nbsp;
Subscribe today at <a href="http://nytimes.com/podcasts">nytimes.com/podcasts</a> or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher">https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher</a>. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See <a href="https://pcm.adswizz.com">pcm.adswizz.com</a> for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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