What It Really Takes to Trade for a Living

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#619: What It Really Takes to Trade for a Living

In this video: 00:01 – Summary of the interview. 00:31 – Andrew Mitchem interview with Etienne Crete. 01:13 – What it takes to succeed in the market long term. 04:37– How long will it take to be a good trader? 06:25 – How do you know if your strategy is not working? 10:40 – What time frame charts should I trade? 18:23 – Prop firm advantages and disadvantages. 22:15 – What returns can I make? 27:40 – Mindset of trading. 30:36 – Contact Andrew

Summary of the interview.

The amount that you make as a dollar value is not important to me. It’s the percentage that you make as opposed to the percentage risk, because you can go on to a prop firm and use their money if you’re good. You know, it doesn’t matter whether I lose $10, $100 or $1,000 if it’s still the same percentage. I’m going to make $30, $300 or $3,000.

You know, if it’s a 3 to 1 trade, providing that you get your mindset away from the numbers and you look at it as percentages.

Andrew Mitchem interview with Etienne Crete.

Something not to do with Andrew Mitchem. And Andrew is a trader that I really admire for his consistency in trading the same methods mostly for multiple decades now, I believe. So it was good to see you back on the podcast. We had a chat a few months ago, I believe, and then you were the very first guest on the podcast. Always kind of welcome back here, which is cool. But tell me what’s going on with you and kind of what you’re up to these days.

Yeah. So nice to be here, first of all. And lovely. I think this is our fourth or fifth one. So, really good to be here. Yeah. Life’s good here with summertime over in New Zealand. Markets are good, which is nice. Now we’re, you know, we’re over that Europe to be in the northern hemisphere summer season.

Yeah. It’s good. Life’s good, as in very good. Awesome.

What it takes to succeed in the market long term

I want to address certain topics it’s going to come down to, I believe, is the theme of what it really takes to succeed in the market long term. I know you have students who are very profitable now. Yeah, students who might struggle a little bit. Have maybe a lot of people who will see you, and then they see you trade full time and they kind of wonder why you’re so successful. Can you kind of start to unpack this and kind of figure out, what does it take to make a living in the markets in the long term?

Yeah, I think there’s obviously a lot of dedication required to trade and to trade well. A lot of dedication and learning up front. I think one of the things I see that a lot of people today are not doing is I don’t think there’s a lot of people there that are willing to put a lot of time and effort into their trading.

And I think as a full-time trader, I’m noticing that’s getting possibly worse. You know, whether it’s a social media thing or people want instant results, I’m not entirely sure what the actual reason is. But one thing I do notice is that people aren’t putting that time and effort in. And if things aren’t going well and they’re not suddenly making a fortune in a month, they give up.

But I find from my point of view, from what I can help people with, it’s just being honest with people and saying, you do need to put some time and effort in to do it properly. You can become a full-time trader. Absolutely. It’s not going to be for everybody. You still have to absolutely love it and have that passion to want to do it and to turn up, to expect that not everything’s going to work perfectly.

Market conditions are not always going to be great. You’ve got to take losing trades, losing weeks, losing months sometimes, but you’ve got to stick through it and be consistent. And I think that’s one thing I can tell people with my years of experience: that’s how you’re going to get through it. It’s a little bit harder for some people to actually accept that because, you know, when you’re in the middle of a slump, it’s quite hard to see the other side.

It’s funny how trading seems to get easier in the sense that you have more information. You have more coaches that can help you how to trade and stuff, but people seem to be putting less effort than before, I feel.

Yeah, absolutely. People are not willing to put time in or dedicate some time to try and learn. Look, I’ve got these things behind me here. That’s my new passion, playing guitar. I’m putting daily practice into it. I’m learning to sing. You know, I’ve done the helicopter thing, I’ve done the karate thing, and now it’s this.

And I can’t instantly expect to turn up and play and sing and be in a band without doing, you know, several years of time and dedication. And it’s getting better all the time. And you go through ups and downs and it becomes easy, then it’s horrible, then you feel dreadful. And I think that trading is exactly the same, but you’ve got to want to do it.

I think you’ve also got to make sure that you’re doing it because you enjoy the trading aspect of it, not simply because you see it as a way to get rich quick or you hate your job. So you think that trading is going to solve all your financial problems. It can do, but you’ve got to give it time.

How long will it take to be a good trader?

If someone were to ask you, what’s the amount of time it’s going to require for me to just sit in trading, what would you tell them? Can you pinpoint how many years it’s going to take them, or can you just say that it takes what it takes and that’s it?

Yeah, I think that you need to dedicate — I mean, I suppose that’s how long it’s going to take you. But if you can give yourself half an hour or an hour a day to learn properly, that would be good. Do your homework on the terminology of trading. You know, when we start talking about limit orders and stop losses and currency pairs and all those type of things, it’s easy because we’ve done it for so long.

But if you’re new to it, you’ve got to give yourself — like learning a new language — time to understand that terminology. Then I think you need to find yourself either a strategy that someone else has created, or put some time into observing the market yourself. And when you’re doing that, don’t worry about making money.

Don’t even contemplate money. Get onto a demo account, look at charts. So time-wise per day, I think even giving half an hour, an hour a day to learn would be nice. That must be every day. But give yourself like six months. Give yourself a year. Don’t rush it. Don’t expect miracles. If you do it properly and do it slowly, you’ll find that it will come together.

And you’ll find that you’ll pick up so much because you’re observing real market conditions without the pressure of feeling that you have to make money from it from day one.

Something I see a lot is people that don’t know when to stop learning. Like, of course you should always try to learn and train and always try to become better, but there’s a time where you have to stop learning different strategies, stop kind of jumping between different strategies, and you’ve got to apply what you’ve learned so far.

How do you know if your strategy is not working?

How do you advise people to know when it’s time to stop learning other things and other strategies?

Yeah, that’s an interesting one because you’re right. The issue that people will have after a certain length of time is if it doesn’t work really quickly, they’ll then go back and try and find something else again, back onto a forum, reinvent the wheel. I’ll give you a great example: just this week I had a guy who wrote to me who’s a client from a number of years ago, and he said it didn’t work for me.

And I came back to your system about six months ago and I started again. And it’s working and I’m loving it. And I’m doing well. I’m on a prop firm and everything. But a lot of people give up too quick. And I think you need to, once you’ve got something that’s proven — maybe not proven to you, but proven to other people — you’ve got to dedicate some time to forgetting everything else.

Because if you get yourself a strategy that has been proven to work, you don’t need to go out there adding to it, and you just need to apply it in real market conditions. You know, I think it’s really important that you do that. And again, like I said earlier, you have to accept that not every trade is going to work, but providing if you’re looking for — like in my example, I’m looking for candle patterns, etc.

So providing I’m taking what is a good quality trade at that time, if the trade works or the trade doesn’t work, I can’t help that. All I have to do is go back and look at it and go, at that time, did this trade meet all those criteria, yes or no? If it did and the trade loses, well that’s fine.

That’s part of trading. But you’ve got to stick to that system. One of the other things I find I get questions about when it comes to things like that is what time frame should I trade? And when people are new, they naturally want to trade lots and lots of trades. So they go to like one- and five-minute charts and fifteen-minute charts — and look, I did exactly the same years ago.

You’ve got to not do that. You’ve got to, in my opinion, get to something longer and more reliable. And then it becomes, okay, so I’ve gone longer, which is the right one? And my answer is it depends because it depends on, one, what type of person you are as a trader, what suits you.

But also, like, I could go through like this week and I’ve had lots of daily chart trades. Last week I didn’t have any, but we had lots of, say, four-hour and twelve-hour chart trades. Next week it might be six-hour or the weeklies might be showing. So I like to look at a variety of time frame charts.

And I think if you just stick to one, that’s when you run into danger. You know, people will say, “Oh, there’s nothing showing,” or “Every trade I’m taking is losing.” So they give up and then they’ll go and look for the next system. So stick to something, but also be flexible.

I just love the daily charts a lot. It’s just so easy to trade compared to what people do intraday and stuff. And I had to slowly move to it over the years. It took me a while to get there, but now I definitely love it. I love this kind of big part of my trading for sure.

Yeah, I think with trading — like the two of us have been doing this for a number of years, like a long time — you soon realize that, you know, less is more. Better quality trades, less sitting looking at the charts, higher quality trades, more probability. All those type of things make it really enjoyable because one, you’re actually making money, but two, you’re actually doing less work, or less time looking at charts.

And so I think to keep that enjoyment up and keeping fresh and keeping loving doing what we’re doing, I could think of nothing worse than just glued to the charts for like three, four, five, six hours. And most of the time all you’re doing is paying the broker because you end up trading by feel — that you should trade because you’re there.

You know, trading what the market’s giving you.

What time frame charts should I trade?

I think the danger for a new trader going into the charts is like — like I said before this — maybe don’t trade for like a week or something. You want to get comfortable with that. Because eventually trading, no matter what timeframe you trade, could be the lower timeframe or higher timeframe, there’s times where there’s no trade at all. How do you get comfortable with that kind of feeling?

Yeah, and that can be hard for people to accept. In our advantage are a couple of things that I can think of, like right now. One, we have access to more markets. So when I started 20 plus years ago, it was just forex. That’s all it was. And there wasn’t that many. Then came more minor pairs, then came like gold or silver against the US.

And now over the last years we’ve got a lot more markets. It depends on your broker of course, but I could trade like gold and silver against — like we all see — the kiwi, the pound, the US, the yen, you know, Singapore dollar. Lots of them. I can trade lots more pairs. I can trade cryptos.

I could trade metals, indices, commodities. So when I am looking through the daily charts once a day, I now have a lot bigger — like, you know — more charts to look through. So I can be very selective in fine tuning. If we use that, let’s say gold example. Years ago, it was gold/US dollar, and that’s all it was.

Whereas I could look at, say, go through all those that I’ve just mentioned. Okay, are gold against the pairs looking the best, you know. So I can be very selective. So, it might only mean I’m taking one or two trades on that timeframe a day, but they’re really high quality ones. And if there’s nothing, then you accept there’s nothing on that timeframe for that day.

But the way that I look at charts is at that close of day when I’m looking at the daily charts. At the same time, the 12-hour charts and the 8-hour charts and the 6-hour charts also close, because it’s 5 p.m. New York time. So at that time I can go and look at like three other time frame charts and look for setups.

And I think that pretty much means that almost every day we are posting trades that we’re taking and we’re posting for our clients. At that time, even if they’re not on the daily charts. If the daily charts are just really not giving us anything, there might be some on the 12-hour charts that are. So it’s still the same time that you’re looking.

It just means that you’re giving yourself a lot more opportunities.

Do you feel like forex lost its appeal since you’ve been trading it? Do you feel like less volatility these days and it’s harder to trade, or do you find other markets are becoming more attractive than forex now?

Yeah, I could see how people would think that. But also look at it and go, I think forex is possibly even more reliable now. You know, if you look back 15, 20 years ago, the non-farm payrolls — like the US monthly employment figures — the price would spike up three, four hundred pips in like 10 seconds sometimes. And it was really wild.

Great if you’re on the trade, but otherwise it could be a nightmare. And so I don’t see those big wild moves any longer. So, you know, I suppose you could say that’s a good and a bad thing. But I do find that sometimes in the northern hemisphere summer season — you know, July or August — sometimes the market goes a little bit quiet.

And I have noticed that a few years in a row. But the flip side of that is because on our forex charts — so like I still use MetaTrader, MetaTrader 5 — and I find that because we have those other markets, I’m still trading them the same way. Whereas years ago when the forex market was like really moving, I didn’t have access to those.

So I can trade those other metals or, you know, cryptos. And it’s not just Bitcoin and Ethereum — there’s lots and lots of other markets. So I find return-wise it’s still exactly the same. It just means that maybe a few more of my trades are on non-forex pairs.

If you want to look back on your trading journey so far, are there a few things you would like to do differently? Are there some things you would change or try to do differently to get the results faster, or to get kind of better results?

Not anything major that I can think of. No, not really. One of the things I’ve always been conscious of is not blowing my account. And so to get better results, of course I could risk more, but that may in turn mean that obviously it means I’m risking more. So when I have drawdowns they’re bigger. And that would also potentially disturb some of the way I’m looking at the market, because you become a little bit more cautious.

Whereas right now, because I risk very tiny amounts, I see a trade, take a trade. I’m not worried about it. I’m not losing sleep over it. And I think that’s a real important part of trading that, you know, you’ve got to see it, react to it, take it. Whereas if you start risking too much in order to make more, the downside is you either revenge trade or you become very scared and you go, “Oh, I see this trade. It’s actually quite good, but I can’t afford to take it,” or “I don’t want another losing trade,” so you don’t take it — and of course that’s the one that wins.

So I’ve always been very cautious of that. Other things I’d change — not a huge amount. I mean, it took me four years to make something that was good.

I mean, I would love to have made that quicker, but, you know, that’s the learning process. You can’t really change that unless you’re just doing your homework. It’s just part of learning. It’s a cost of learning, those years. No, I’ve tried like automation. I’ve tried adding extra things. And it always comes back to the way that I sort of traded back then.

It’s still the way I trade today.

That’s cool. I always tell people the fact that it’s better to aim for lower returns and kind of more consistency, like you mentioned, than trying to look for bigger returns and just having a low-cost equity curve.

So, absolutely, you’ve got to try and keep your equity curve relatively smooth. You can’t — like if someone says, “Oh, I’ve had a 50% return,” then you go, well, that’s really good. But then, “I’m risking stupid amounts and I’ve had like a 60, 70% drawdown.” And it’s like, well, that’s not very good.

So the actual return is not, to me, so important. It’s what’s your risk as opposed to your return. And as we know, with the ability now to trade on other accounts that it’s not your money — like a prop firm — just being consistent and not having big drawdowns is what they want.

And so there are other avenues now for people that, you know, because of course people used to go, “Oh, my account’s only,” you know, I pick a figure, $5,000. “Even if I make 100%, I can’t live off $5,000.” Well, no, of course you can’t. But you still have proven to yourself that you’ve got the ability to make that 100%. So it’s important that you know what I mean.

The amount that you make as a dollar value is not important to me. It’s the percentage that you make as opposed to the percentage you risk, because you can go on to a prop firm and use their money.

If you’re good.

Prop firm advantages and disadvantages.

I feel like prop firms kind of encourage traders to just gamble more because they could always go and trade and hope to pass a challenge. And it’s kind of a risk of like, if you do this consistently, then you just end up losing the account.

But it’s easier to kind of just take a big trade, hopefully pass or hopefully get a withdrawal, and then you kind of go with that.

To me, the aim of a prop firm — the only important thing is not how long you take to pass it. It’s just don’t get to the drawdown. And if you don’t blow the drawdown, you will pass it eventually. And it’s just that most people don’t look at it that way. They go, “Oh, how quick is it going to take me to get to 10%?”

And so I can get through the demo onto a live — and yeah, you’re right. If it encourages you to get that gambling mentality, then you’ve got to seriously consider if you should be even on a prop firm.

And I think the important thing for people — and I get a lot of emails from people saying, “Look, I failed a prop firm,” and it’s like I get back to them and say, well, have you been trading for six months, 12 months on demo or a live account of your own?

And they go, “No, I went straight to a prop firm,” and it’s like, well, that’s a really silly thing to do. You’d be better off spending six months on a demo account and treating it like it’s live, or a small live account of your own, and proving consistency in your results, because it’s going to prove to yourself that you can do it, and then go to a prop.

Don’t ever waste your money jumping into a prop firm, because all you’re doing is feeding prop firms more money. And like I said, you’re either going to gamble and fluke it, but that can only happen so many times before you blow it.

Definitely. What’s a drawdown you’re comfortable with on your own account? Do you have a certain level, certain percentage that if it’s within check, you’re okay with that? And then if it goes beyond it’s like too much, but on a personal level based on kind of your risk tolerance.

Yeah. Personal level, like, if I ever get to a 10% drawdown, I’d be horrified. You know, that’s me. The absolute maximum kind of level. But because I risk very small amounts, I’d need a lot of consecutive trades all to get stopped to get to that level, you know. And with a reasonably good system, you’re going to get some good trades in there at some stage.

So the likelihood of getting to that is really quite slim.

But it’s because some people will say, “Oh, 10% is nothing.” So I know that’s going to comment below. But I mean, for me, similar for me is 15%. I’m still good with it, but I don’t want to go to like 20%. Like 15% is probably my limit, and I won’t get to that very often.

Well, the easy one — and I think we’ve mentioned this on other chats we’ve had — is the one that gets most people. If you have a 50% drawdown, you need to make 100% to get to break even. And most people can’t see that until they stop and think about it and go, wow, that’s quite scary.

So that’s why I like to keep risk low per trade, ensure that profitable trades many times the risk are several times the risk. So you have little small losses, big gain; little small losses, big gain. And that way you don’t have to be right all the time because no one’s going to be right all the time.

You know, you can accept that things might go against you or your trade’s going really well, and something happens and it gets stopped out. Well, if it does, it’s not killing your account. And mentally it’s not affecting you because your risk is really small. You only need a couple of profitable trades and it’s taking back all those losses and more. And you’re then back higher than when you started.

What returns can I make?

Right. So you have to kind of get away from that mindset of if I don’t make enough returns, then I won’t be able to make enough money, or I won’t get a platform to fund me, or I won’t be able to get capital. It’s kind of a big thing. It’s like people think you have to have higher returns to be interesting for platforms and investors and whatever, but you could be doing much better with lower returns, correct?

That’s right. You just want consistency — low drawdowns and consistency. And I think the issue that I see is a lot of people don’t have the quality of strategy that allows that to happen. You know, to start with, I find a lot of people just don’t have a strategy at all. Then they don’t understand risk management.

They have no plan. They really don’t know where they’re putting their stop loss or why. A lot of people seem to put the stop loss and still go back to pips, and they put the same stop loss on every single trade, regardless of looking at the market conditions. So there’s all these things that people do that are real basic, but if you do them wrong, you’re just stacking all the odds against yourself.

So again, it comes back to me: get some education, do your homework, do that hard work up front. And if you do that time and hard work up front, then the results will follow. If you expect instant results and you don’t do your homework, you probably only get one result and that’s you’re going to give up or fail.

You know what I mean? I saw a comment on our YouTube channel yesterday. Someone said that they took a trade and they put a stop loss, and then they lost $60,000 because of it. So the lesson is, well, next time they won’t use a stop loss because then they won’t lose money. You don’t have a stop loss, no trade. It’s kind of a crazy thing when you think about it. But yeah, kind of like — it’s crazy.

There’s a lot of simple things that people could do. It’s like I’m staggered the number of people that don’t understand that if they have a sell trade on, and it’s on, let’s say a minor exotic pair, and the spread widens, then they could get stopped out even though the price doesn’t get anywhere near their stop loss, whereas that won’t happen on a buy trade.

And so it’s all those things that when you spend some time in the market, you get to see these things and you’re doing all that groundwork. So you’re not surprised when it becomes real money or bigger amounts of money.

Okay. I think this is easy. Is it something you can just learn from courses, or is it kind of things that you just have to learn through being in the market and kind of seeing things happen and kind of seeing where weird stuff happens too?

That’s right. Give it time. You know, give it time. You’ll find all these things happen. You’ll go, “Hang on a minute, that price never got near my stop loss and the broker took it out.” And then the natural thing is to blame the broker. But it’s like, no, you were trading the Norwegian krone/Japanese yen, and it was a sell trade, and it was on a one-hour chart with a tiny stop loss, and the spread just took it out.

So all those little things — you’re better off making those mistakes on a small account when, you know, financially it doesn’t really matter, but you learn from it.

What’s your advice for someone who says, “I want to be able to make a living in the markets”? Is it just about learning a strategy and kind of being good at it, or is there more to it, to making a living in the markets?

The strategy is obviously really, really important, but I think you need to also be in the right mental space as well. You know, you’ve got to be consistent. You’ve got to show up consistently. It’s one of the things that I love about the teaching aspect is that I can’t go, “Oh, I can’t be bothered to trade today.”

I want to stay in bed, or, you know — I have to show up. And so that’s what you need to do because, you know, you can just imagine that you don’t show up for a few days, and that’s the day when all the good trades show and you’ve missed it. So be consistent, show up, be consistent with your trading, know when to trade. These type of things come into it as well.

Because I think you need to stagger things because when you do go to bigger accounts or firms or your own larger account, whatever it is you do, it does affect you because you see bigger losses, numbers-wise. But that’s why it comes back to, for me, it’s a percentage.

You know, it doesn’t matter whether I lose $10, $100 or $1,000. If it’s still the same percentage, I’m going to make $30, $300 or $3,000. You know, if it’s a 3 to 1 trade, providing that you get your mindset away from the numbers and you look at it as percentages — that’s the percentage of your account that you’re risking. And it’s all relative. It’s all exactly the same.

So I think when you start going live with bigger accounts, that is one thing that can play with your mind, play with your head. But if you understand those numbers and you’ve been through different market conditions of ups and downs, then you just ride it and go with it. But as a person, be consistent.

Don’t do dumb things. Yeah. If there’s no trade there, don’t take it, right? If the trade’s there, take the trade.

Mindset of trading.

Definitely. I mean there’s a whole strategy aspect, there’s a whole psychology of course, a mindset as a whole. Also finances, like how do you structure your account? How much do you put in your account, how much you’re willing to lose? What do your profits do, I think is a point. Do you want to go into that a little bit? More like how you manage finances as a trader, like what things are the case.

You’ve got to understand what works for you, you know? What are you comfortable with? I think that’s really important. It’s like, if you suddenly see five trades show, are you going to take them? Are you going to keep your risk the same on all five? Let’s say you risk 1% per trade. Are you suddenly going to put 5% on there because all five look good?

Or are you going to select the best one, or are you going to reduce the risk and take all of them? If they’re all related, let’s say they’re all US dollar related, well, quite a lot is the US dollar at the time is really strong or really weak. Moving those pairs. So are you going to accept therefore that all five could go wrong?

Or five could work, you know. You’ve got to know what your answer to those questions is before it happens. You’ve got to have that plan. I think that’s really important.

What about in terms of capital? Do you believe in putting all your money into one account and kind of just trading it, or do you kind of spread it out and do — you look at investing, you look at trading, you look at different things to make money that’s not all connected to kind of one market?

No, I mean obviously the cash flow through your trading’s really good, you know, if you’re good at it. So that’s always a nice thing. But personally, I still, outside of trading, invest in other things.

I mean, I hear people that say, let’s pick something else. Let’s say you’ve got $50,000, and they say, “I’ll only put $25,000 with the broker and keep $25,000 somewhere else and just risk twice the amount.” So you hear people doing that, that’s an option.

I just think that with the ability to — once you’re good — with the ability to either trade for other people or trade for prop firms, so you don’t need to load up your account with like everything you have. And I also think it’s quite important that you split whatever you trade for your own trading money over several brokers as well.

I would do that purely from a safety point of view, you know. Yes, I trade with some very good brokers. Have they ever done anything wrong? No, not to me. Have I ever, in the past, had a broker that suddenly disappeared? Yes. And it hurts.

And we battled and battled for many years and ended up with about 80% back after all these legal fees. Like a group of us got together from around the world. But it’s horrible going through it. And you wouldn’t wish that on anybody. So split your account up over a few brokers.

Contact Andrew

It’s good advice for sure. Where can people find you and connect with you after this podcast? Where can they learn your strategies and your methods and kind of connect with you?

Yeah. Well, our website’s TheForexTradingCoach.com. We’ve been around for over 16 years, clients in 109 countries now. So in that time we’ve never ever missed posting our daily trades, our webinars, everything. Our forum site — so have a look at TheForexTradingCoach.com. There’s lots of information. There’s lot size calculators and e-books and free webinars for people to have a look and do the homework.

Go on to something like Forex Peace Army and look at the reviews since 2009. You know, have a look at what we do and the due diligence review. Decide if coaching and a strategy is something that you want. Just do your homework.

I personally write back to every email that comes through directly to me. You know, we’re real people. I’m sitting here at home, my office. It’s just that my computer screens are just behind me. You know, we’re real people doing this, and that’s why it works.

I think we’ve got tutors in London and North Carolina as well. So we’re not just — because I’m here in New Zealand — we cater to people right around the world.

Yeah, yeah. Also super active on YouTube. We have a lot of content there and also on the podcast. I believe it’s been good stuff over the years.

So yeah, yeah, we’ve got our stuff on all the normal social media channels. YouTube — 616 videos, I think right now to date. You know, so one a week, that’s been going for what, 12, 13, 14 years or so. So it’s that consistency of showing up.

But if you go back and watch some of the early ones, the content in terms of like the suggestions — and not so much advice — but, you know, suggestions and things we talk about hasn’t really changed.

And that’s, I think, massively important that, you know, we’re not chasing our tail and adding bits to the strategy and taking bits off simply because markets change. The logic, the strategy is identical today than it was 16 years ago.

I told you when I started trading and it’s still there, so it’s insane. It’s crazy. I mean, there for a long time. That’s crazy. That’s good.

That’s right. And you know, over those years you’re going to get different market conditions and everything happens in the market politically and everything else. And the logic still works, which is the awesome thing about it.

Awesome. If people can connect with you, see what you do, and of course, if they want to learn from you, that’s awesome. And your time here, especially the advice, is always a good discussion and we can have a chat next time about trading again.