Consciousness is this amazing, mind-bending riddle. It’s the only thing any of us truly knows. We experience everything else in life through it. And yet we barely understand it. We don’t know what it’s made of or how it works or why it exists.
But scientists and theorists have been trying to answer those questions, and have made some startling discoveries. The science writer Michael Pollan, known for books like “The Omnivore’s Dilemma” and “How to Change Your Mind,” spent five years on the vanguard of this research. And his new book, “<a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/646644/a-world-appears-by-michael-pollan/" rel="noopener noreferrer">A World Appears: A Journey Into Consciousness</a>,” shows that the closer you look at consciousness, the weirder it gets.
I asked Pollan to walk through some of the places his mind wandered on this journey — including the role of the body and feelings in consciousness, fascinating studies that provide evidence for plant sentience, the researchers who have abandoned their old theories after trying psychedelic drugs, and the possibility that consciousness may not emerge from inside us at all. “I’ve entered this ‘never say never’ realm with this research,” Pollan told me.
Mentioned:
“<a href="https://www.hurlburt.faculty.unlv.edu/hurlburt-akhter-2006.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Descriptive Experience Sampling method</a>” by Russell T. Hurlburt and Sarah A. Akhter
“<a href="https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Nagel_Bat.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">What Is It Like to Be a Bat?</a>” by Thomas Nagel
<a href="https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393542011" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Hidden Spring</a> by Mark Solms
<a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/297609/descartes-error-by-antonio-damasio/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Descartes’ Error</a> by Antonio Damasio
“<a href="https://academic.oup.com/edited-volume/38694?login=true" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Oxford Handbook of Spontaneous Thought</a>” by Kalina Christoff and Kieran C. R. Fox
Book Recommendations:
<a href="https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262048804/the-blind-spot/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Blind Spot</a> by Adam Frank, Marcelo Gleiser and Evan Thompson
<a href="https://www.galleybeggar.co.uk/paperback-shop/ritegxpqvavi286gp91sd0he23hzx4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Ducks, Newburyport</a> by Lucy Ellmann
<a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/566315/being-you-by-anil-seth/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Being You</a> by Anil Seth
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast</a>, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs</a>.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Kim Freda. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
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