Even if you don’t believe he walked on water, the teachings of Jesus still have a certain power. My guest this week, the New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman, calls himself a “Christian atheist.” I asked Ehrman to come on the show to explore Jesus’ message, discuss how the Bible has shaped the morality of the Western world and explain what even the biggest skeptic can learn from one of mankind’s oldest texts.
<ul>
 <li>0:00 - Intro</li>
 <li>02:20 - Jesus’s moral teachings</li>
 <li>08:15 - Ehrman’s path away from Christianity and faith</li>
 <li>21:22 - The historical evidence for Jesus and the New Testament</li>
 <li>33:26 - The challenges in interpreting the Gospels</li>
 <li>52:07 - The contradictions in the New Testament</li>
 <li>01:04:10 - Historical and geographical validity</li>
 <li>01:09:25 - The visions and reality of the Resurrection </li>
 <li>01:19:21 - A “Christian atheist”</li>
</ul>
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@InterestingTimesNYT" rel="noopener noreferrer">Interesting Times with Ross Douthat</a>.
<blockquote>Subscribe today at <a href="http://nytimes.com/podcasts">nytimes.com/podcasts</a> or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher">https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher</a>. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.</blockquote> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See <a href="https://pcm.adswizz.com">pcm.adswizz.com</a> for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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