On this week’s episode of The Waves, what’s it like to be an indie musician? Slate senior producer <a href="https://slate.com/author/cheyna-roth">Cheyna Roth</a> is joined by singer and songwriter <a href="https://www.dessawander.com/">Dessa</a>. They dig into her <a href="https://www.dessawander.com/music/">newest album</a> and how she has benefited from and been hurt by being a woman in the music industry. Later in the show they explore the breakup song - and all the gendered expectations that go along with writing one. In Slate Plus: What do a dentist, neuroscientists, and puppeteers all have in common? They’ve worked with Dessa.If you liked this episode, check out: <a href="https://slate.com/podcasts/the-waves/2023/11/politics-how-donald-trump-ronald-regan-josh-hawley-teddy-roosevelt-tradition-of-macho-man-politics-campaigns">Penis Politics</a> Podcast production by Cheyna Roth and Vic Whitley-Berry with editorial oversight by Daisy Rosario and Alicia Montgomery.Send your comments and recommendations on what to cover to<a href="mailto:thewaves@slate.com"> thewaves@slate.com</a>.Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now at<a href="http://www.slate.com/howtoplus"> </a><a href="http://slate.com/thewavesplus">slate.com/thewavesplus</a>. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

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