Anthropologist Adam Louis-Klein was in the Amazon on October 9th, when he went online and learned what had happened two days previously. Almost immediately, he also discovered something else: his left-wing colleagues in the academy were ready to ostracize him for his “<a target="_blank" href="https://www.thefp.com/p/what-anti-zionism-really-is">filthy Zionist</a>” views. Since then, Louis-Klein has turned his analytical eye toward anti-Zionism. In this conversation, he explains the ideology’s history and how it continues to perpetuate itself through <a target="_blank" href="https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/holiest-hatred-antisemitism">cycles of libel</a>. He also breaks down the other greatest hits of left-wing academic jargon — settler-colonialism, genocide, occupation, etc. — along the way. And we all try to break ourselves out of the language games that prevent us from having a real conversation about what’s happening, and not, in Gaza. On the agenda:-On Zohran Mamdani [00:00-12:40]-Libel cycles post-October 7th [12:41-29:12]-Defining terms: Zionism, Anti-Zionism, and more [29:13-57:00]-The left’s alliances [57:01-1:10:42]-On victimhood, violence, and self-reliance [1:10:43-1:27:36]-The reader’s/viewer’s responsibility [1:27:37-1:42:41]-Expanding the concept of genocide [1:42:42-2:01:31]-The future of Anti-Zionism [2:01:32-2:09:37]Mentioned in this episode:* When is it Genocide? — <a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/when-is-it-genocide/id1548604447?i=1000721783741">The Ezra Klein Show</a>* Editors’ Note: July 30, 2025 — <a target="_blank" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/30/pageoneplus/editors-note-july-30-2025.html">The New York Times</a>* Editors’ Note: Gaza Hospital Coverage — <a target="_blank" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html">The New York Times</a>* How the World Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Butchery of Jews (w/ Eli Lake) — <a target="_blank" href="https://uncertain.substack.com/p/hamas-israel-eli-lake">Uncertain Things</a>* The Apocalypse We Deserve (w/ Niall Ferguson) — <a target="_blank" href="https://uncertain.substack.com/p/niall-ferguson-doom-apocalypse">Uncertain Things</a>* Don’t Blame Israel on the Jews (w/ Walter Russell Mead) — <a target="_blank" href="https://uncertain.substack.com/p/walter-russell-mead-israel">Uncertain Things</a>* Hooked on Dead Jews (w/ Dara Horn) — <a target="_blank" href="https://uncertain.substack.com/p/dara-horn-antisemitism-jews">Uncertain Things</a>* Zionism and the Refugee Machine (w/ Dr. Einat Wilf) — <a target="_blank" href="https://uncertain.substack.com/p/zionism-and-the-refugee-machine">Uncertain Things</a> Uncertain Things is hosted and produced by Adaam James Levin-Areddy and Vanessa M. Quirk. For more doomsday rumination, subscribe. Get full access to Uncertain Things at <a href="https://uncertain.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">uncertain.substack.com/subscribe</a>

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