Saoud Rizwan and Pash from Cline joined us to talk about why fast apply models got bitter lesson'd, how they pioneered the plan + act paradigm for coding, and why non-technical people use IDEs to do marketing and generate slides.Full writeup: https://www.latent.space/p/clineX: https://x.com/latentspacepodChapters:00:00 - Introductions 01:35 - Plan and Act Paradigm 05:37 - Model Evaluation and Early Development of Cline 08:14 - Use Cases of Cline Beyond Coding 09:09 - Why Cline is a VS Code Extension and Not a Fork 12:07 - Economic Value of Programming Agents 16:07 - Early Adoption for MCPs 19:35 - Local vs Remote MCP Servers 22:10 - Anthropic's Role in MCP Registry 22:49 - Most Popular MCPs and Their Use Cases 25:26 - Challenges and Future of MCP Monetization 27:32 - Security and Trust Issues with MCPs 28:56 - Alternative History Without MCP 29:43 - Market Positioning of Coding Agents and IDE Integration Matrix 32:57 - Visibility and Autonomy in Coding Agents 35:21 - Evolving Definition of Complexity in Programming Tasks 38:16 - Forks of Cline and Open Source Regrets 40:07 - Simplicity vs Complexity in Agent Design 46:33 - How Fast Apply Got Bitter Lesson'd 49:12 - Cline's Business Model and Bring-Your-Own-API-Key Approach 54:18 - Integration with OpenRouter and Enterprise Infrastructure 55:32 - Impact of Declining Model Costs 57:48 - Background Agents and Multi-Agent Systems 1:00:42 - Vision and Multi-Modalities 1:01:07 - State of Context Engineering 1:07:37 - Memory Systems in Coding Agents 1:10:14 - Standardizing Rules Files Across Agent Tools 1:11:16 - Cline's Personality and Anthropomorphization 1:12:55 - Hiring at Cline and Team Culture<h3>Chapters</h3><ul><li>00:00:00 Introduction and Guest Intros</li><li>00:00:29 What is Klein? Product Overview</li><li>00:01:42 Plan and Act Paradigm</li><li>00:05:22 Model Evolution and Building Klein</li><li>00:07:40 Beyond Coding: Klein as a General Agent</li><li>00:09:12 Why Focus on VS Code Extension?</li><li>00:11:26 The Future of Programming and Agentic Paradigm</li><li>00:12:34 Economic Value: Programming vs. Other Use Cases</li><li>00:16:04 MCP Ecosystem: Growth and Marketplace</li><li>00:21:30 Security, Discoverability, and Trust in MCPs</li><li>00:22:55 Popular MCPs and Workflow Automation</li><li>00:25:30 Monetization and Payments for MCPs</li><li>00:37:53 Competition, Forks, and Open Source Philosophy</li><li>00:40:39 RAG, Fast Apply, and Agentic Simplicity</li><li>00:50:11 Business Model and Enterprise Adoption</li><li>00:57:04 Background Agents, Multi-Agent Systems, and CLI</li><li>01:00:41 Context Engineering and Memory</li><li>01:12:39 Team, Culture, and Closing Thoughts</li></ul>

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Cline: the open source coding agent that doesn't cut costs

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