The work of Rod Dreher has a consistent theme: doom. He believes the collapse of Christianity has ushered civilizational decline in Europe, that we’ve traded our humanity for comfort, and he worries that totalitarianism is around the corner for the United States. “I’m worried about Weimar America,” he tells me. “It may not be Hitler 2.0, it may not be Stalin 2.0. It might be something all American, but it’s not going to be what we’re used to.” It’s best not to dismiss him; he’s been right before. We discuss how we got here and the dangers that still lie ahead when we grant godlike powers to our technology.
<ul>
 <li>0:00 - Intro</li>
 <li>1:41 - The role of Christianity in Western society</li>
 <li>12:26 - Free speech in Western Europe</li>
 <li>17:40 - Immigration and de-Christianization</li>
 <li>23:55 - Viktor Orbán's Hungary</li>
 <li>34:50 - "Weimar America" and the coming crisis</li>
 <li>46:45 - Dreher's personal journey</li>
 <li>55:12 - Dark re-enchantment and A.I. as a "vector for the demonic"</li>
</ul>
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@InterestingTimesNYT" rel="noopener noreferrer">Interesting Times with Ross Douthat</a>.
<blockquote>Subscribe today at <a href="http://nytimes.com/podcasts">nytimes.com/podcasts</a> or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher">https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher</a>. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.</blockquote> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See <a href="https://pcm.adswizz.com">pcm.adswizz.com</a> for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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