*]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:0e33158e-e556-4c5c-854e-86c08ad52d55-1" data-testid= "conversation-turn-4" data-scroll-anchor="true" data-turn= "assistant"> Most of us assume smart, capable people would spot a cult a mile away. But for most survivors, it did not look like a cult at first, and by the time it did, leaving no longer felt like a real choice. On this episode of The Gaslight Effect Podcast, Dr. Robin Stern sits down with <a href= "https://www.drfabert.com/">Dr. Natalie Fabert</a>, a psychologist, faculty member at Arizona State University, and board member and Director of Continuing Education at the <a href= "https://www.lalichcenter.org/">Lalich Center on Cults and Coercion</a>. Dr. Fabert specializes in helping adults heal from trauma, abuse, and coercive control, especially in cultic and spiritually abusive environments. Drawing on her clinical work and her role with the Lalich Center's training course for therapists, she and Robin explore how gaslighting operates not only in intimate relationships, but also in high-control groups and "cult-like" systems where unquestioned loyalty and obedience are expected. Together, they unpack: <ul data-start="865" data-end="1481"> <li data-start="865" data-end="975"> How gaslighting and coercive control show up in cults, spiritual communities, and other high-demand groups </li> <li> Why thoughtful, intelligent, hardworking people can be drawn into abusive systems—and why "just leaving" is far more complicated than it sounds </li> <li data-start="1079" data-end="1169"> The overlapping dynamics of narcissistic abuse, coercive control, and cult involvement </li> <li> The particular challenges cult survivors face after leaving, including grief, identity loss, and complex trauma </li> <li> Why therapists need to approach survivors with cultural humility and strong boundaries—and how trainings like the Lalich Center's course can help them do that more safely </li> </ul> This episode speaks directly to the question, "Why didn't they just leave?" Robin and Natalie offer language, validation, and hope—for survivors, for their supporters, and for the therapists who want to walk alongside them as they reclaim their reality and rebuild their lives. To check out this and other episodes, head over to <a href= "https://robinstern.com/podcast/podcast-player/">robinstern.com</a>. Don't forget to subscribe to The Gaslight Effect Podcast on your favorite podcast platform, and be sure to leave us a review to let us know what you think. Until next time, remember: healing is a journey, and you don't have to walk it alone. Dr. Robin Stern's Social Media Links: Facebook - <a href= "https://www.facebook.com/drrobinstern/">https://www.facebook.com/drrobinstern/</a> Instagram - <a href= "https://www.instagram.com/dr.robinstern/">https://www.instagram.com/dr.robinstern/</a> Twitter (X) - <a href= "https://twitter.com/RobinSStern">https://twitter.com/RobinSStern</a> LinkedIn - <a href= "https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-stern-220b403a">https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-stern-220b403a</a> Dr. Robin Stern's Books: <a href= "https://robinstern.com/about-robin-stern/dr-robin-sterns-books/">The Gaslight Effect</a> <a href= "https://robinstern.com/about-robin-stern/dr-robin-sterns-books/">The Gaslight Effect Recovery Guide</a> <a href= "https://robinstern.com/about-robin-stern/dr-robin-sterns-books/">Emotional Intelligence for School Leaders</a> Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed on The Gaslight Effect Podcast do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

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How Smart People End Up in Cults: Dr. Natalie Fabert on Gaslighting in High-Control Groups

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