What are the conditions that enable a country to become great — or great again? The Trump administration — and other right-wing movements in other countries — offers a vision of greatness based on power and domination abroad, and a mix of shared national and religious stories at home. And that vision is clearly appealing to a lot of people. Liberals in the U.S. and elsewhere have been struggling to tell a story that can compete.
What story would Yuval Noah Harari tell? One of the through lines of Harari’s best-selling books — “Sapiens,” “Homo Deus,” “Nexus” — is the huge role that stories play in shaping the arc of history, driving humans to cooperate on a grand scale to achieve great things, or divide violently against one another.
So I wanted to ask him about the stories that the U.S. and Israel, in particular, seem to have embraced right now. What does history tell us about the power of this story? And why does the liberal story seem so weak right now?
Mentioned:
<a href="https://www.harpercollins.com/products/sapiens-yuval-noah-harari?variant=32207215689762" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Sapiens</a> by Yuval Noah Harari
<a href="https://www.harpercollins.com/products/homo-deus-yuval-noah-harari?variant=32220273573922" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Homo Deus</a> by Yuval Noah Harari
<a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/787049/unstoppable-us-volume-3-how-enemies-become-friends-by-yuval-noah-harari-illustrated-by-ricard-zaplana-ruiz/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Unstoppable Us, Volume 3</a> by Yuval Noah Harari
“<a href="https://www.understandingai.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Understanding AI</a>” by Timothy B. Lee
Book Recommendations:
<a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/725022/the-maniac-by-benjamin-labatut/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The MANIAC</a> by Benjamin Labatut
<a href="https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/9383/chimpanzee-politics?srsltid=AfmBOopldU1GWIFMVNjf00h_Fy6vpHWtJbi5ZBhJwjUrIUGeP_kJUINy" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Chimpanzee Politics</a> by Frans de Waal
<a href="https://www.harpercollins.com/products/brave-new-world-aldous-huxley?variant=33051834777634" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Brave New World</a> by Aldous Huxley
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast</a>, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs</a>.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Julie Beer. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Johnny Simon. Our recording engineer is Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Subscribe today at <a href="http://nytimes.com/podcasts">nytimes.com/podcasts</a> or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher">https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher</a>. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See <a href="https://pcm.adswizz.com">pcm.adswizz.com</a> for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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