Comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony and opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas talk to William Deresiewicz, author of /Death of the Artist: How Creatives Struggle to Survive In the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech/. This book argues that artists have a harder time making a middle class living today than in previous generations - but is this true? And how does it effect the art and entertainment that’s made today? 

Here is the video version on YouTube: https://youtu.be/p3YIytFgvAY

Timestamps might be off by about 30 seconds: 

00:00:00 Intro: The Two Stories Told About Being an Artist 
00:01:04 Why did /Death of the Artist/ need to be written now? 
00:02:31 But hasn’t it ALWAYS been hard to be an artist? 
00:05:03 How is all this unique to artists? Aren’t a lot of middle-class professions in danger?
00:06:08 What is Art with a capital “A” and why is it under threat? 
00:09:06 The TV Renaissance is Over (Amending the section on TV in /Death of the Artist/)
00:11:06 Is interviewing 140 artists really representative of the arts industry? 
00:15:56 Is it helpful for individual artists to look at the issues of the arts industry ? 
00:17:58 Is art really “boring” now? And why does William Deresiewicz not watch movies in movie theatres? 
00:21:16 Blockbusterisation and the loss of the creative middle class 
00:25:15 But isn’t there actually a glut of good content now? (going back to the article “We’re all Bored of Culture Now”) 
00:32:22 Isn’t journalism a form of art? And is it not subjective? (i.e. Nick pushes back) 
00:34:04 Blaming wokeness for boring art 
00:43:12 What if you’re depressed after reading /Death of the Artist/? Is there an actionable takeaway? 
00:45:35 How do you reconcile pouring your youth and talent into an arts education that has no chance of leading to a satisfying career? How to repurpose creative skills? 
00:52:06 What does the gamification of internet popularity say about the value of art? How does the internet lower the time and skill put into creative endeavours? 
00:58:12 The 1000 true fans model - does it work? 
00:59:07 “Everyone is an artist”: The Romantic myth that led to the Silicon Valley myth / David Graeber and Nicka Dubrovsky’s essay “Another Art World” 
1:03:50 The lifecycle of an artist and how artists are discouraged as children
1:06:32 Saying goodbye (jazz clubs and experimental theatre shows we’re going to see)


Links to stuff we talk about: 
The Death of the Artist: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250125514/thedeathoftheartist
Article “We’re all Bored of Culture”: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/bored-of-culture-william-deresiewicz 
Article “On Not Drinking the Kool Aid”: https://salmagundi.skidmore.edu/articles/434-on-not-drinking-the-kool-aid


💋👁👂🏼 Artists on the Verge website: https://artists-on-the-verge.com/

👀 Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge

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