Rabbi Michael G. Holzman joins Mark Labberton to explore the formation of his Jewish faith, the pastoral realities of congregational life, and the multi-faith initiative he helped launch for the nation's 250th anniversary, Faith 250. He reflects on his early experiences of wonder in the natural world, the mentors who opened Torah to him, and the intellectual humility that shapes Jewish approaches to truth. Their conversation moves through the unexpected depth of congregational ministry, the spiritual and emotional weight of the pandemic, the complexities of speaking about God in contemporary Jewish life, and the role of cross-faith friendships. The episode concludes with Rabbi Holzman's reflections on how the suffering in Israel and Palestine reverberates among Jews and Muslims in America. Episode Highlights <ul> <li>"I think we are desperately in need of ways to get Americans to agree that they're in the same community… simply by naming the Declaration of Independence as a piece of shared American scripture… we are inviting people and really challenging ourselves to think about the words in those documents seriously, and prayerfully."</li> <li>"My formation as a child was relatively non-theological… my mother just would sit there and say, 'Do you feel that wind?' And for me, knowing that it was in a national park mattered… being in such a grand and awesome space, under the enormity of the heavens."</li> <li>"The pursuit of truth with epistemic humility really became the cornerstone…if Moses wasn't allowed to see God's face, I'm never gonna see God's face—and yet we are all still pursuing what the meaning of this incredible text is."</li> <li>"I was a little bit unprepared… until you experience it as a pastor, you don't really understand the power of those things. That rootedness in this particular congregation gave me a sense of existential meaning that I didn't anticipate."</li> <li>"The thing that got me through that darkness was Saturday morning Torah study… just being there with the text and with these faces and these people… that to me was my path through the darkness."</li> <li>"When people are sitting over the text, the most palpable experience of God is this moment of understanding another human being… it's so vulnerable and it's so fleeting and it's so beautiful."</li> <li>"There is an experience happening on the ground of absolute suffering and horror on both sides… and there's a parallel experience happening for Jews and Muslims in America. It's powerful, spiritually powerful, emotionally powerful, and to people's core."</li> </ul> Helpful Links and Resources <ul> <li>Faith 250 <a href= "https://www.faith250.org/">https://www.faith250.org/</a></li> <li>"The New Colossus" by Emma Lazarus <a href= "https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46550/the-new-colossus">https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46550/the-new-colossus</a></li> <li>"What to the Slave Is the Fourth of July?" by Frederick Douglass <a href= "https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july/"> https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july/</a></li> <li>"America the Beautiful" by Katherine Lee Bates <a href= "https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/america-beautiful-1893"> https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/america-beautiful-1893</a></li> <li>I and Thou, Martin Buber <a href= "https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780684717258/i-and-thou"> https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780684717258/i-and-thou</a></li> </ul> About Rabbi Michael G. Holzman Rabbi Michael G. Holzman is the Senior Rabbi of Northern Virginia Hebrew Congregation (NVHC), where he has served since 2010. His work focuses on spiritual formation, civic engagement, multi-faith partnership, and the cultivation of communities grounded in dignity, learning, and ethical responsibility. He founded the Rebuilding Democracy Project, which developed into Faith 250, a national multi-faith initiative preparing communities for the 250th anniversary of the United States through shared reflection on foundational American texts. He teaches and writes on Jewish ethics, civic life, and spiritual resilience. Show Notes Faith 250 American Scripture <ul> <li>Faith 250 as a response to political despair and a way for clergy to exercise agency</li> <li>Four core American texts explored as shared scripture across faiths</li> <li>Intent to counter politicization of the 250th anniversary through spiritual depth</li> <li>Multi-faith relationships grounding the initiative in shared civic and moral concern</li> <li>Emphasis on clergy as conveners of spiritually safe, local containers for reading</li> <li>The Declaration, New Colossus, Frederick Douglass, and America the Beautiful as "scriptural" portals to civic meaning</li> <li>"American scripture" as a means of naming shared identity and shared community</li> </ul> Jewish Formation and Torah <ul> <li>Childhood shaped by nature, wonder, and ethical awareness rather than synagogue life</li> <li>Early encounters with the Everglades as formative experiences of spirit and awe</li> <li>Discovery of Torah study as a young adult across Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform settings</li> <li>Epistemic humility as a defining mark of Jewish study practice</li> <li>Pursuit of truth understood through the "through a glass darkly" frame of Moses</li> <li>Torah received "through the hand of Moses" as mediating truth and mystery</li> <li>Chevruta (paired study) as the engine of discovery, disagreement, and meaning</li> </ul> Pastoral Life and Congregational Meaning <ul> <li>Surprised by the depth of pastoral work: weddings, funerals, life-cycle passages</li> <li>Intimacy of congregational leadership as a source of meaning rather than tedium</li> <li>Congregational relationships forming an existential and vocational anchor</li> <li>The role of community support during family medical crises</li> <li>How decades-long pastoral presence shapes shared covenantal life</li> <li>Teaching 12- and 13-year-olds to encounter the text as spiritual practice</li> <li>The power of intergenerational relationships in spiritual resilience</li> </ul> Pandemic and Spiritual Survival <ul> <li>Early months of 2020 as a time of fear, isolation, and emotional strain</li> <li>Counseling families whose loved ones were dying without visitors</li> <li>Previous experience with depression creating early warning signals</li> <li>Telehealth therapy as a critical intervention</li> <li>Saturday morning Torah study on Zoom becoming the path through darkness</li> <li>Growth of the study community throughout the pandemic</li> <li>Predictable humor and shared reading as markers of communal stability</li> </ul> Textuality, God-Language, and Jewish Hesitations <ul> <li>Jewish discomfort speaking explicitly about God for theological and cultural reasons</li> <li>Layers of humility, anti-mysticism, differentiation from Christianity, and historical experience</li> <li>Sacredness and mystery of the scroll growing in the digital age</li> <li>Physicality of the Torah scroll attracting deeper attention and reverence</li> <li>Hebrew as a source of multivalent meaning, sonic power, and spiritual resonance</li> <li>Reading together as the most common encounter with God: understanding another's soul</li> <li>Pastoral awareness of individuals' life stories shaping group study dynamics</li> </ul> Cross-Faith Devotion and Shared Honor <ul> <li>Friendships with Muslim, Christian, and Hasidic leaders deepening spiritual insight</li> <li>Devotion in others sparking awe rather than defensiveness</li> <li>Disagreement becoming a site of connection rather than separation</li> <li>Devotion in other traditions prompting self-reflection on one's own commitments</li> <li>Stories of praying with and learning from ultra-Orthodox leaders</li> <li>Shared pursuit of truth across tradition lines as a form of civic and spiritual honor</li> <li>American religious diversity offering unprecedented exposure to sincere piety</li> </ul> Israel, Gaza, and American Jewish Experience <ul> <li>Suffering, fear, and horror experienced by Israelis and Palestinians</li> <li>Parallel emotional and spiritual pressures faced by Jews and Muslims in America</li> <li>Concern about political manipulation of community trauma</li> <li>Generational trauma and its transmission, including Holocaust-era family stories</li> <li>Emotional resonance of global conflict in local congregational life</li> <li>Distinction and connection between geopolitical realities and American spiritual experience</li> <li>Call to honor emotional realities across neighborhoods and communities</li> </ul> Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment Magazine and Fuller Seminary.

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