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Jonathan V. Last, editor of The Bulwark, stops by the show to talk to Lovett about his "Grand Unified Theory of Trumpism" — that Trump's opponent "will always choose surrender over discomfort." Together, they try to make sense of America's rotting political culture, breaking down when and where it all went wrong, and debate what it'll take for the nation to heal from this moment, be it a reckoning of virtue, kindness, or democratic will. Jonathan also walks Lovett through the echoes of Goebbels recently displayed by Secretary Marco Rubio and Stephen Miller and why he believes the desire for a figure like Trump may have always been present within the Republican base.Hate listening to ads? Become a Friends of the Pod subscriber for ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, Pod Save the World, Lovett or Leave It, Runaway Country, Offline with Jon Favreau, and more—plus exclusive content, including bonus episodes of Pod Save America. Subscribe now at <a href="http://crooked.com/friends">crooked.com/friends</a>, on Apple Podcasts, or through the Pod Save America YouTube channel.To watch this episode with subtitles, <a href="https://youtu.be/ih_OlkwHl5c">click here</a> and turn on closed captions (CC).You can also request a transcript by emailing <a href="mailto:transcripts@crooked.com">transcripts@crooked.com</a>. Include the podcast name, episode title, and air date. Please allow 48 hours for delivery.</div>

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