<h2>How Do You Hit 4000 Episodes Without Losing Your Mind?</h2>Today I'm talking with Glenn Hebert and Jamie Jennings from <a href="https://horseradionetwork.com/podcast/horses-in-the-morning/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Horses in the Morning</a>, the flagship show of the Horse Radio Network. They just crossed 4000 episodes, and since they're doing this daily, I had a ton of questions for them. Mainly: how do you keep your sanity?Glenn has been on this show more times than any other guest, and I'll drop links to a few of those past conversations below. We also talk about how "Glenn the Geek" became a verb around here. I cut in a few times throughout the episode to riff on some of what we discussed, so stick around for that too.<h2>Key Takeaways</h2><ul><li>Segments (not just guests) are what let a daily or frequent show survive without constantly reinventing the wheel.</li><li>A real community needs a place to talk to each other, not just a place to listen to you.</li><li>Feedback from your most invested listeners (not just anyone) should shape what you keep and what you cut.</li><li>You're making the show for the 80% who like it, not the 20% who don't.</li><li>If you're trying to make money at this, budget 10-12 hours of work for every hour that airs.</li></ul> <h2>How Glenn and Jamie Keep Finding Something to Talk About</h2>Jamie's husband asked her, before episode one, what she was even going to talk about after two weeks of a horse podcast. Sixteen years and 4000 episodes later, that question still makes her laugh. Glenn books guests only a week or two out, and most of the show's four or five segments per episode get planned the morning of. Being daily is actually their advantage: they can be timely in a way most podcasts can't.Glenn admitted he basically is the show-prep service. Google Alerts and AI help him find stories faster than they used to, but the instinct for what's worth talking about still comes down to two to three hours of prep every single morning.<h2>Segments Give You Somewhere to Put Your Energy</h2>Jamie is the storyteller. Glenn plays the guy reacting to it. He described their pre-show routine: Jamie says she's got a two-to-five-minute story, and he already knows it's going to stretch to twenty minutes and he'll happily let it. That contrast, he said, is what makes the show work.I've got segments on this show too (if you've got a favorite segment idea, feel free to send it in). One of mine is built entirely out of "this happened because I have a podcast." I used to do a "last five in five" segment where I'd share the last five things I listened to in under five minutes. Segments are useful because they don't all have to show up in every episode. When I don't have a big topic, I create a "podcast stew," a handful of small segments squeezed together. Takes the pressure off having to fill a big block of time. An episode just needs to be as long as it needs to be, and not a minute more.<h2>Building a Community That Actually Talks to Each Other</h2>Glenn says their community basically built itself once <a href="https://patreon.com/invite/oojl" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Patreon</a> entered the picture around nine or ten years ago. One of their own listeners asked if she could start a private Facebook group for supporters, and it's grown into 30+ subgroups on everything from dogs to mental health, plus in-person meetups they run themselves.Glenn's take, and I completely agree: the biggest mistake podcasters make when they say they want "community" is giving people no actual place to talk to each other. A community needs a room. You don't have a true community until they can talk to each other.They get supporters directly involved too, birthdays shouted out on air, segment material submitted by listeners themselves. If your audience made the content, you already know they're going to like it.<h2>Sponsors Who Become Part of the Family</h2>Jamie and Glenn have given away more than $80,000 in prizes over 16 years, largely funded by sponsors who get a bit of airtime in exchange for product. Those relationships often graduate into full paid sponsorships once the brand sees it works.That reminded me of Mark from <a href="https://beyondbourbonst.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beyond Bourbon Street</a>, a past guest of mine (<a href="https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/829" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">episode 829</a>) who had Two Chicks Walking Tours as a sponsor, then had listeners telling him in his own community that they'd taken the tour and loved it. That's the kind of proof that makes a sponsorship renewal conversation easy. And speaking of sponsors sticking around, I was listening to The New Media Show recently and they mentioned Todd Cochran had GoDaddy as a sponsor for around 21 years.<h2>The Focus Group Most Podcasts Never Bother With</h2>This one floored me. On top of their broader <a href="https://patreon.com/invite/oojl" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Patreon</a> community, Glenn and Jamie run a rotating focus group of 12 listeners every six months whose entire job is to comment on every single episode. Every episode gets six to twelve honest responses.That feedback has actually killed segments. They ran an "animal psychics" bit for a while that they personally enjoyed, but the negative response outweighed the positive, so it's gone. If you're going to ask your paying supporters for their opinion, you have to actually be willing to act on it.<h2>Handling the People Who Don't Like You</h2>Glenn's rule, learned from ten years running an improv theater company: about 80% of any audience likes what you do, and 20% doesn't. That ratio doesn't change. You're not making the show for the 20%. You're making it for the 80%, and Glenn pointed out the harder truth: a chunk of that 20% keeps listening anyway, seemingly just to be annoyed. Let it go.Jamie added that after the true fans and the negative Nellies, there's a middle group whose feedback is the most useful because it's the most honest.<h2>The Most Popular Segment Isn't the Guests</h2>Right before hitting 4000 episodes, they surveyed listeners on favorite segments. The winner, by a wide margin: pure host banter, just Glenn and Jamie talking about nothing. Their biggest listener complaint over the years has actually been "too many guests." As Glenn put it, people come for the content and stay for the hosts.<h2>What It Takes to Actually Make Money Doing This</h2>Glenn's advice for a new podcaster wondering when the money shows up: niches make it easier. Horse people, in his words, are some of the most dedicated hobbyists out there, and that's true of plenty of other niches too (cycling, golf, you name it). Small and mid-sized brands without their own ad agencies are the sweet spot, and Glenn's found 80% of his sponsors by showing up in person at trade shows and introducing himself at every booth. He's been to 38 of them.Their own listener survey backs this up: 80% of listeners said they'd bought a product because Glenn and Jamie talked about it on air in the last year. Only 25% said the same about a banner ad. Trust is the entire business model.<h2>Doing the Show Sick, and Other Real-Talk Moments</h2>When you're sick, you address it up front. Ignoring it doesn't work, because that's all the listener will focus on anyway. Same goes for a loud remote recording location. Be real about it and people roll with it, sometimes they even prefer it.One detail that stuck with me: Jamie trains off-the-track thoroughbreds and has personally placed horses with listeners in 18 different states just by mentioning them on the show. That's community turned into real-world impact.<h2>My Takeaways After the Interview</h2>A few things I wanted to add once the mic was off:Contact info matters more than you think. Always tell people how to reach you. For me that's <a href="https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/contact/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">schoolofpodcasting.com/contact</a>. Someone recently told me they'd left a comment on my <a href="https://podcastingobservations.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Substack</a> and had no idea if I'd seen it, because I hadn't told them how I check for those.Where to find ideas, beyond hanging out with your audience the way Glenn does: <a href="https://alerts.google.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Google Alerts</a> will tell you anytime a topic (or your name) gets mentioned online. <a href="https://answerthepublic.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Answer the Public</a> shows you what people are actually typing into search around a topic. Or just Google your topic and scroll down to "People Also Ask."On <a href="https://podcastmovement.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Podcast Movement</a>: I wasn't selected to speak this year, which is the first time that's happened after speaking at every single one. Disappointing, sure, but I'll still be there to say hi, and I'll have more free time than usual. I am speaking at the <a href="https://empoweredpodcasting.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Empowered Podcasting Conference</a> in Charlotte, NC, and at <a href="https://www.podiny.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">PodIndy</a> in November.Lesson learned: if a voting campaign like this comes around again, I'm rallying the troops early instead of assuming people will remember on their own.On working with AI: I'm deep into learning Claude and all the "co-worky" automation stuff right now, and I'll be the first to admit I don't know what I don't know. I've been leaning on School of Podcasting members who are further along with it, including Craig from <a href="https://www.aigoestocollege.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AI Goes to College</a> and John Jamingo from <a href="https://www.boomerbunker.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Boomer Bunker</a>.If you're not doing audience surveys, that's its own version of not knowing what you don't know, and if you're not sure whether your audience is engaged, their silence on a survey is usually the answer.<h3>Glenn's Past Appearances on the Show</h3><ul><li><a href="https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/making-a-living-talking-about-horses-glen-the-geek-is-never-boring/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Making a Living Talking About Horses</a></li><li><a href="https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/learn-how-you-can-help-others-by-sharing-your-abilities-with-glenn-hebert/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Learn How You Can Help Others by Sharing Your Abilities with Glenn Hebert</a></li></ul> <h3>Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting</h3>Starting August 19th, we're running two live classes. Podcasting in Six Weeks is back, and it's free this time, for anyone who hasn't launched a show yet: <a href="https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks</a>. And for members, we're running a live Growing Your Audience course together, tracking your download numbers before and after: <a href="https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/grow" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">schoolofpodcasting.com/growcourse</a>. Use the coupon code listener when you sign up for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly School of Podcasting membership.<h3>Question of the Month</h3>What's the smallest audience size you'd still do your show for? Would you quit if it dropped below that, or dig in to find out why? Send your answer to <a href="https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">schoolofpodcasting.com/question</a> by August 28th, and include your show name and website so I can link to you in the notes.I'm Dave Jackson. I help podcasters. It's what I do.Until next week, take care, God bless.Class is dismissed.Mentioned in this episode:Take Live Classes at the School of PodcastingPodcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!)
We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction. 
Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks

Growing Your Podcast Live Course
For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount.

These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact<a href="https://school-of-podcasting.captivate.fm/start">School of Podcasting</a>Live AppearancesI love to meet people when I'm on the road. I'm going to be at 
Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte NC
Podcast Movement in NYC
Podindy in Indianapolis In.
For more information and links, go to schoolofpodcasting.com/where
To have me speak at your event, reach out at schoolofpodcasting.com/contacnt<a href="https://school-of-podcasting.captivate.fm/where">Where Will I Be?</a>Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of DownloadsWe all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why?
Does the size of your audience matter?
Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)<a href="https://school-of-podcasting.captivate.fm/start">School of Podcasting</a>Podpage Email AlertsPodpage just launched a feature called Episode Alerts. It automatically emails your subscribers the moment a new episode goes live — no third-party email tool needed. When you publish, Podpage sends the email, links listeners straight to the episode, routes replies to your own inbox, and handles unsubscribes automatically. They also run every email address through validation and monitor bounces/spam complaints to protect your sender reputation.

It's not meant to replace a full newsletter platform — no drip campaigns or segmentation — just a simple "hey, new episode's up" notification.

It's available for Pro and Elite users, with monthly sending caps of 500 emails on Pro and 5,000 on Elite. 

For more information see https://www.podpage.com/updates/introducing-episode-alerts/<a href="https://school-of-podcasting.captivate.fm/podpage">Podpage</a>

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