In this episode, host and math professor Anna Stokke interviews Mike Petrilli, President of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, about the role of standardized testing in K–12 education. They discuss the benefits and criticisms of standardized tests, the methodologies behind tests like NAEP, international comparisons with PISA and TIMSS, long-term trends in student performance, and the consequences of declines in student achievement. 
Highlights include a discussion of Mississippi's educational success despite high poverty rates, and the potential influences of modern educational policies and smartphones. Mike Petrilli emphasizes the importance of accurate measurement for policymaking and shares advice on influencing educational policy.  This episode is a must-listen for educators, policymakers, parents, and anyone interested in the future of education.
FREE WEBINAR: The Science of Math Instruction: Using Evidence-Based Practices in the Classroom, May 8, 2025.  Registration link: <a href='https://home.edweb.net/webinar/mathskills20250508/'>https://home.edweb.net/webinar/mathskills20250508/</a>
TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:00] Introduction  


[00:03:18] Discussion on standardized testing 


[00:06:14] Criticisms of standardized testing 


[00:12:25] Frequency and levels of testing 


[00:20:04] International perspectives on testing 


[00:23:11] Understanding NAEP 


[00:28:07] Recent trends in NAEP scores 


[00:28:41] Impact of the pandemic  


[00:31:16] Pre-pandemic declines  


[00:32:26] Comparing international trends: PISA scores 


[00:33:08] The role of smartphones 


[00:35:26] TIMSS scores 


[00:38:16] Long-term impact of declining academic achievement 


[00:39:20] Efforts to address learning loss 


[00:42:12] States that bucked the trend: the “Mississippi miracle” 
[00:46:44] Low-performing states 


[00:49:54] Future strategies for education systems 


[00:53:22] Influencing educational policy 


[00:55:49] Conclusion and final thoughts 

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES 
Ep 33.  Educational leadership:  Improving math and literacy with Scott Hill 
<a href='https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-vpzf8-16d0c17'>https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-vpzf8-16d0c17</a>
Ep 32. Identifying and educating advanced students with Jonathan Plucker <a href='https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-y6cxs-16ad6f1'>https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-y6cxs-16ad6f1</a>
Ep 25.  Understanding reform math ideology with Tom Loveless
<a href='https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-7ih4c-15dbf9a'>https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-7ih4c-15dbf9a</a>
Ep 18.  Education myth-busting with Daisy Christodoulou
<a href='https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-z2q9q-14ce080'>https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-z2q9q-14ce080</a>
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
<a href='https://www.annastokke.com/ep-45-transcript'>https://www.annastokke.com/ep-45-transcript</a>
EPISODE RESOURCES
<a href='https://www.annastokke.com/ep-45-resources'>https://www.annastokke.com/ep-45-resources</a>
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it
Blue Dot Sessions – Mazamorra, Tarte Tatin, Willow Willow, Betty Dear, Lissa

Website: <a href='http://www.annastokke.com/'>www.annastokke.com</a>
X: <a href='https://twitter.com/rastokke'>@rastokke</a>
LinkedIn: <a href='http://www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c'>www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c</a>
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

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A decade of decline: examining falling test scores with Mike Petrilli (Ep 45)

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