“We see the future of digital experiences as living — personalized and self-improving 24/7.” - Josh Payne In this episode, Jacqueline Freedman puts Josh Payne in The Hot Seat to unpack “living interfaces,” AI-driven experimentation, and what agentic marketing really looks like in practice.  Josh shares lessons from collaborating with OpenAI, why most CRO tests fail, and where generative engine optimization (GEO) is headed next.  We delve into enterprise realities, including privacy and governance, avoiding spaghetti code, and what a “living interface” entails. Highlights <ul class="ul1"> <li class="li1">Discover how “living interfaces” adapt websites in real time to lift conversion and usability.</li> <li class="li1">Learn a practical framework for automating ~90% of the CRO workflow with agents.</li> <li class="li1">Understand when to start with global experiments vs. personalization to reduce data-privacy friction.</li> <li class="li1">Explore the rise of generative engine optimization (GEO) and why it will rival SEO in influence.</li> <li class="li1">Adopt guardrails: define measurable evals, keep specs specific, and stay model-agnostic for compliance.</li> <li class="li1">Hear what enterprises actually need from vendors: context, integration, and disciplined measurement.</li> </ul> Timestamps 03:50 - What “living interfaces” are and how they create real-time, self-improving digital experiences 04:57 - Partnering with OpenAI: visual grounding, UI generation, and early access to models 11:25 - Why most CRO tests fail—and how AI agents flip the economics of experimentation 14:50 - What “agent marketing” means: automating workflows and scaling high-leverage loops 17:45 - Common AI pitfalls and why clear goals, specs, and evals matter 24:20 - Navigating privacy concerns and model choices in enterprise AI 27:30 - How Josh filters the AI noise and stays sharp Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode.

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