Earlier this year a Border Patrol officer was killed in a shoot-out with people who have been described as members of a trans vegan AI death cult. But who are the Zizians, really? Robert sits down with David Gborie to trace their development, from part of the Bay Area Rationalist subculture to killers. (4 Part series) Sources:&nbsp; <ol> <li><a href="https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2BBLeWD-Q9faG8ZGm9dXQx">https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https:/sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https:/sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0wzJA5-rK-S32KpYNr9Jyv">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https://sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/</a></li> <li><a href="https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/infohazard" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/infohazard&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1yv4p3dQL3_-bEItT42Qvb">https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/infohazard</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130316/https:/sinceriously.fyi/net-negative/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130316/https:/sinceriously.fyi/net-negative/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0vnyh3_HKL-ShmWfvLkmNw">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130316/https://sinceriously.fyi/net-negative/</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/hgTdD" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/hgTdD&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3baRdPbDf4rZ_XBjKaFhyt">Wayback Machine</a></li> <li><a href="https://zizians.info/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://zizians.info/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3qUsR9w5Qh2_uikuEkoxpk">The Zizians</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary#spectral-sight" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary%23spectral-sight&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2M7fgwN2cotntpS0v9PNZc">Spectral Sight</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary#true-hero-contract" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary%23true-hero-contract&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw332Q-lkdRuQTz95UDPVwek">True Hero Contract</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230202013351/https:/sinceriously.fyi/schelling-orders/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230202013351/https:/sinceriously.fyi/schelling-orders/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw04WMmQqSevbucwEGMcTgaI">Schelling Orders &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary/#zentraidon" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary/%23zentraidon&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3cfQuZmPi5XnsqbcPoVxS5">Glossary &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li>&nbsp;<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130330/https:/sinceriously.fyi/my-journey-to-the-dark-side/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130330/https:/sinceriously.fyi/my-journey-to-the-dark-side/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw21Cz9AeSZyZCXYh8JfiIRW">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130330/https://sinceriously.fyi/my-journey-to-the-dark-side/</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary/#zentraidon" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary/%23zentraidon&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3cfQuZmPi5XnsqbcPoVxS5">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https://sinceriously.fyi/glossary/#zentraidon</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130259/https:/sinceriously.fyi/vampires-and-more-undeath/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130259/https:/sinceriously.fyi/vampires-and-more-undeath/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3DTzusT5RH_gZtNA7L9Zqg">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130259/https://sinceriously.fyi/vampires-and-more-undeath/</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130316/https:/sinceriously.fyi/net-negative/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130316/https:/sinceriously.fyi/net-negative/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0vnyh3_HKL-ShmWfvLkmNw">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130316/https://sinceriously.fyi/net-negative/</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https:/sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https:/sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0wzJA5-rK-S32KpYNr9Jyv">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https://sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/</a></li> <li><a href="https://x.com/orellanin?s=21&t=F-n6cTZFsKgvr1yQ7oHXRg" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://x.com/orellanin?s%3D21%26t%3DF-n6cTZFsKgvr1yQ7oHXRg&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3Xteu3Mngt21YJrLKTin-p">https://x.com/orellanin?s=21&t=F-n6cTZFsKgvr1yQ7oHXRg</a></li> <li><a href="https://zizians.info/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://zizians.info/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3qUsR9w5Qh2_uikuEkoxpk">https://zizians.info/</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/metro/6-violent-deaths-tied-to-radical-vegan-cult-based-in-california/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/metro/6-violent-deaths-tied-to-radical-vegan-cult-based-in-california/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2J97h9PjhQyFzNzVanJ9wu">according to&nbsp;The Boston Globe</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/zizian-murders-david-maland-curtis-lind-b2701101.html" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/zizian-murders-david-maland-curtis-lind-b2701101.html&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3C-13-qmzyQNc6isHOH7w_">Inside the &lsquo;Zizians&rsquo;: How a cultish crew of radical vegans became linked to killings across the United States | The Independent</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ziz-silicon-valley-rationalist-deaths-1235278765/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ziz-silicon-valley-rationalist-deaths-1235278765/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw15FC713rVi6CftwVJb5gJf">Silicon Valley &lsquo;Rationalists&rsquo; Linked to 6 Deaths</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/4HAtn" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/4HAtn&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2QLO7uQ5kFxYsPo4Wyx7kk">The Delirious, Violent, Impossible True Story of the Zizians | WIRED</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130336/https:/sinceriously.fyi/good-group-and-paseks-doom/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130336/https:/sinceriously.fyi/good-group-and-paseks-doom/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3HqIKQRWaaEIRzSEQpMQNR">Good Group and Pasek&rsquo;s Doom &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary/#zentraidon" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary/%23zentraidon&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3cfQuZmPi5XnsqbcPoVxS5">Glossary &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130331/https:/sinceriously.fyi/mana/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130331/https:/sinceriously.fyi/mana/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2fNILZbXcatgFr9IfTFfPF">Mana &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/xhV0S" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/xhV0S&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw08NyLo3WrLCXnnMA5i5ekL">Effective Altruism&rsquo;s Problems Go Beyond Sam Bankman-Fried - Bloomberg</a></li> <li><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RpAvd5TO5eMhJrdr2kz43dxT3nNm0XtuPcaW9kBIZL8/edit?tab=t.0" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RpAvd5TO5eMhJrdr2kz43dxT3nNm0XtuPcaW9kBIZL8/edit?tab%3Dt.0&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1DnUxf81Z_EiB_l9bX25c1">The Zizian Facts - Google Docs</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/LLQYp53vop5BuyKBF/several-free-cfar-summer-programs-on-rationality-and-ai" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/LLQYp53vop5BuyKBF/several-free-cfar-summer-programs-on-rationality-and-ai&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1hA8VkmKQr3F3xcyXmzE16">Several free CFAR summer programs on rationality and AI safety - LessWrong 2.0 viewer</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.vox.com/2014/4/23/5643418/this-guy-thinks-killing-video-game-characters-is-immoral" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.vox.com/2014/4/23/5643418/this-guy-thinks-killing-video-game-characters-is-immoral&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1PaoUoZVOAPQuXJh58nCmL">This guy thinks killing video game characters is immoral | Vox</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230128221733/https:/equilibriabook.com/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230128221733/https:/equilibriabook.com/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw231NkYk-97GmE3Bl4F_kFw">Inadequate Equilibria: Where and How Civilizations Get Stuck</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/gR6H3egpRPNYnoTrA/on-terminal-goals-and-virtue-ethics/comment/mZTPvwcA3DEDCcC7w" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/gR6H3egpRPNYnoTrA/on-terminal-goals-and-virtue-ethics/comment/mZTPvwcA3DEDCcC7w&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1zXSHyGlz27Cf4gAS0WYBX">Eliezer Yudkowsky comments on On Terminal Goals and Virtue Ethics - LessWrong 2.0 viewer</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/xhV0S" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/xhV0S&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw08NyLo3WrLCXnnMA5i5ekL">Effective Altruism&rsquo;s Problems Go Beyond Sam Bankman-Fried - Bloomberg</a></li> <li><a href="https://squirrelinhell.blogspot.com/2017/12/happiness-is-chore.html#more" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://squirrelinhell.blogspot.com/2017/12/happiness-is-chore.html%23more&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0Jv0XPQjB_j0Xiibf7rYLf">SquirrelInHell: Happiness Is a Chore</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220217023845/https:/www.plumofdiscord.com/post/675855867193769984/i-became-a-full-time-internet-pest-and-may-not" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20220217023845/https:/www.plumofdiscord.com/post/675855867193769984/i-became-a-full-time-internet-pest-and-may-not&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2GnpZqu77CBpVC8WcUkRm-">PLUM OF DISCORD &mdash; I Became a Full-time Internet Pest and May Not...</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20211009234142/https:/sinceriously.fyi/roko-harassment-of-plumofdiscord-composited/#comment-4671" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20211009234142/https:/sinceriously.fyi/roko-harassment-of-plumofdiscord-composited/%23comment-4671&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2Fe2VocdZ73C-z131NOqEZ">Roko Harassment of PlumOfDiscord Composited &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/czxD3" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/czxD3&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1Iai8DoRNxNyezowghTD9A">Intersex Brains And Conceptual Warfare &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://sinceriously.blog-mirror.com/infohazardous-glossary#debucketing" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://sinceriously.blog-mirror.com/infohazardous-glossary%23debucketing&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0DdBDKMxRb0Derkm_vrUxO">Infohazardous Glossary &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MFJli_QLM75fF4yUGtllNJ-z76FeHZ7x/view" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MFJli_QLM75fF4yUGtllNJ-z76FeHZ7x/view&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0QVqj2REeNPq5SJneA0fJN">SquirrelInHell-Decision-Theory-and-Suicide.pdf - Google Drive</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230202013352/https:/sinceriously.fyi/the-matrix-is-a-system/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230202013352/https:/sinceriously.fyi/the-matrix-is-a-system/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw0W-Ce7akEreKVSRONA85v7">The Matrix is a System &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.ph/h7j3v" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.ph/h7j3v&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw0nH7iXSdhnkHBG3KjHAQ0S">A community alert about Ziz. Police investigations, violence, and&hellip; | by SefaShapiro | Medium</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.ph/iOmFI" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.ph/iOmFI&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw3iZmNkYq_MgQdgKu3ctrAC">Intersex Brains And Conceptual Warfare &ndash; Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw3WZ4BwtZQuZzvYk4lER6t1">A community alert about Ziz. Police investigations, violence, and&hellip; | by SefaShapiro | Medium</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220521125057/https:/www.plumofdiscord.com/tagged/cw-abuse" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20220521125057/https:/www.plumofdiscord.com/tagged/cw-abuse&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw0QyClJC_iYr4jNBYQW2h9H">PLUM OF DISCORD (Posts tagged cw-abuse)</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.ph/mHiKh" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.ph/mHiKh&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw2Ki7trUnLZ9gT2XXzjfp95">Timeline: Violence surrounding the Zizians leading to Border Patrol agent shooting</a></li> </ol>See <a href="https://omnystudio.com/listener">omnystudio.com/listener</a> for privacy information.

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