President Donald Trump has long threatened to pull America out of the alliance. We examine why the Iran war has made this time look significantly <a href="https://www.economist.com/europe/2026/04/05/european-allies-are-losing-hope-of-keeping-america-in-nato?utm_campaign=a.io&utm_medium=audio.podcast.np&utm_source=theintelligence&utm_content=discovery.content.anonymous.tr_shownotes_na-na_article&utm_term=sa.listeners" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">more serious</a>. Westerners are fleeing their countries in <a href="https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2026/03/22/westerners-are-fleeing-their-countries-in-record-numbers?utm_campaign=a.io&utm_medium=audio.podcast.np&utm_source=theintelligence&utm_content=discovery.content.anonymous.tr_shownotes_na-na_article&utm_term=sa.listeners" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">record numbers</a>—with economic consequences for their origins and destinations. And our series profiling the countries contesting the World Cup starts with Spain.&nbsp;&nbsp;Guests and host:<ul><li>Anton La Guardia, diplomatic editor</li><li>Callum Williams, senior economics writer</li><li>Jon Fasman, senior culture correspondent</li><li>Rosie Blau, co-host of “The Intelligence”</li><li>Jason Palmer, co-host of “The Intelligence”</li></ul>Topics covered:&nbsp;<ul><li>NATO, war in Iran, Donald Trump, Mark Rutte</li><li>expats, emigration, economics</li><li>World Cup, Spain</li></ul>Get a world of insights by <a href="https://subscribenow.economist.com/podcasts-plus" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">subscribing to Economist Podcasts+</a>. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our <a href="https://myaccount.economist.com/s/article/What-is-Economist-Podcasts" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FAQs page</a> or watch <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gczo71bg1uY" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">our video</a> explaining how to link your account.

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