In this Leanpub podcast episode, Len Epp interviews Ed Barnard, author of Beyond Prompt Engineering: The Revolutionary Way to Learn Augmented Thinking. With two 20-year careers&#x2014;first in operating system development at Cray Research and then in web software development&#x2014;Ed brings deep technical expertise and philosophical insight to the conversation.

They discuss the evolution of computing and Ed&#x2019;s powerful approach to learning and working with AI beyond simply crafting prompts. Ed shares stories from his early days working with the &#x201C;wizards&#x201D; at Cray, his practical experience with software consulting, and how the pursuit of deeper understanding in human-computer interaction has shaped his latest work.

The episode also explores the limitations of current AI thinking, the importance of structured learning, and how his book provides a conceptual roadmap for those seeking to become not just prompt engineers, but collaborative thinkers alongside machines. It&#x2019;s a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of programming, AI, and human cognition.

This interview was recorded on June 10, 2025.

The full audio for the interview is here: https://s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/leanpub_podcasts/FM317-Ed-Barnard-2025-06-10.mp3. The Frontmatter podcast is available on our YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/leanpub, in Apple Podcasts here https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/frontmatter/id517117137, and almost everywhere else people listen to podcasts.

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Ed Barnard, Author of Beyond Prompt Engineering: The Revolutionary Way to Learn Augmented Thinking

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