This episode is gonna drop on Thanksgiving, but whenever you are listening, I'd like to suggest taking this moment to be grateful. Everybody has someone to be thankful for: colleagues, our mentors, our cheerleaders, our support system, our community, our strategic alliance partners.

For a full transcript of this episode, click here.

If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to be a member of the Relentless Tribe.

It will take a village to transform healthcare. Also, just to level set, you are listening to a Thanksgiving show; and the term "demand curve" is going to come up. Just locking in our wonky bona fides, which definitely says as much about you as it does about me … just saying.

But yeah, it's on or about Thanksgiving. So, consider who is on your own list to thank right about now in your world. The older I get, the more I am realizing just how important it is to give thanks and be grateful. And so, this year (because just keeping it orderly), I have devised my top five baskets of thank yous to hand out Relentless Health Value style. Not sure what that means exactly. We like our top fives around here.

First basket of thank yous goes to … I'd like to thank everyone in our big tent of healthcare transformation who does not succumb to the narcissism of small differences. I did a whole episode on the narcissism of small differences a year ago (INBW39), so please go back and listen to that if you are so intrigued.

But in short, in every fundamental way, if I agree with somebody—like I'm 99% in agreement with another person or even 80% in agreement—then our discussion about the 1% or the 20% where we're a little misaligned can and should be respectful and in context. There's way more agreement than disagreement.

I'm reminded of what Winston Churchill said one time. He said, "The only thing worse than fighting with your allies is fighting without them." So, I wanna thank everyone who retains directional alignment and remembers the conversation is about a relatively small disagreement that could be around the edges.

Some of you folks do this so beautifully on LinkedIn or otherwise, and there are so many of you who are so good at engaging in really positive ways that furthers everyone's understanding.

This is so important because we need collective action. We need collaboration. I heard recently someone say effective collaboration will be the next breakthrough innovation, and I could not agree more.

In fact, as I'm thinking about this, I do believe I said that myself five years ago on at least one show (INBW37), which I have linked here as evidence. But it will inarguably take a village to do pretty much anything in healthcare, which is why the "It will take a village" is the third prong from my manifesto/personal charter (EP399, EP400) that I look at every single day because it's on a Post-it note taped to my wall at this point because the Post-it glue sticky stuff is long gone. So, I had to tape it.

So, in sum, thank you to all of you with the self-awareness and the abundant mindset who are reflective and inclusive in ways that I truly admire and really try to emulate.

Rob Marty: Hi, this is Rob Marty, and I'll be the first to admit that working in healthcare can be stressful.

I have my good days, and I have days where I feel like our broken healthcare system is here to stay. On bad days, I find hope by listening to the Relentless Health podcast, and I feel as if Stacey is speaking directly to me when she reminds us we are all part of a tribe. We are not alone in our pursuit of high-quality, cost-effective, accessible, and inclusive healthcare.

Stacey: And this civility and big tent and self-awareness really, really matters … to me, at least. As I've said to any number of you, right now, at this moment, I have honestly not seen in my 25-year career in healthcare more downright just—I'm gonna call it flat out—meanness in business. Downright whatever you can take, just take it if you can get away with it.

You might feel this, too. Again, I've spoken to many who agree, but this view that it's okay to defy most any rules of basic civility, it certainly creates this pervasive feeling of, like, emptiness or aloneness for everyone involved—including those who are the ones twisting the knife, ironically enough.

So, yeah, this has been a really hard year, to be frank. I've been doing my day job for a very long time, and there's definitely always been a sort of, I don't know, socially acceptable business relationship. And just like I said, this year has been a total low point in just what constitutes acceptable levels of decency and integrity.

The antidote here is, of course, community. I read somewhere that the secret to a fulfilled life is relationships, purpose, and service. And this Relentless Health Value tribe, you all, you offer the opportunity to each other to fulfill all three. So, with all my heart to you who take the high road when it's so easy apparently to go low, thank you.

It's nice to be in this tent with you. It's nice to be in this village with you, and you are the very first folks I wanna thank with my first basket of thank yous.

Second basket of thank yous, and all of these are probably very interrelated, but the second basket of gratefulness goes out to all of you in the Relentless Health Value tribe who are so happy to pay it forward.

In fact, here's something that Dan Greenleaf said at the end of episode 489 that really resonates with me.

Dan Greenleaf: If people wanna reach out to me, I'd be happy to talk with people who are involved here. I've done something very similar. I've shared with you, I've reached out to a few people who I've heard on the podcast, so I certainly wanna extend that invitation as well.

Stacey: And I really like what Kelly Kirby Fisher wrote the other day on LinkedIn. She wrote, "[Look, I love the Relentless Health Value podcast.] I've learned so much and keep pushing links [of] the podcasts to my coworkers so we can talk about them later. It's like a book club, but better!"

I love that idea.

Here's the thing, tribe: I get a lot of messages from folks who are looking for an intro to a guest or someone else in this community village, tribe of ours.

You don't need me. And I say that with pride. If you hear someone on the show, they were invited because of who they are as much as, or maybe even more than, what they are currently up to.

Here's something that Vivian Ho, PhD, said.

Dr. Vivian Ho: I listen to Relentless Health Value religiously because this is the show for those who are part of the tribe that wants to improve the quality of healthcare, improve access to care, and make it affordable.

Stacey: This is a community that has grown way bigger than me. And again, I say that with great pride. If you listen to Relentless Health Value and you are part of the conversations or even just the thought processes that we undertake around here, that is all the calling card that you need. Please reach out directly.

And don't forget, collaboration will be the next breakthrough innovation. And I want that for you. So, go for it. Call up or message whoever you want. And I'm so grateful that you decided to do that, that you chose to do that. And also for any of you who take up that conversation and pick up that call, it will take a village.

I've said that 10 times, but it really will. And I'm so grateful for all of you here who are part of that.

Chris Skisak: Hi, my name is Chris Skisak. I am the executive director of the Houston Business Coalition on Health, as well as Texas Employers for Affordable Health Care. I've been a longtime listener and have had the privilege of getting to know and work with Stacey Richter.

There is no doubt in my mind that Relentless Health Value is the best podcast out there that addresses the financial challenges and opportunities in healthcare delivery. Episode 452 with Cora Opsahl gives hope and encouragement to what can be accomplished through collective perseverance and resolve.

I highly encourage listeners to pay attention to this episode, as it truly will require a village of employers locally, at the local market level, to change what needs to be changed.

Thank you very much.

Stacey: Third basket of thank yous to hand out, I wanna thank anybody who is or aids and abets the demand curve in the healthcare sector. All of you who listened to the past, I don't know, bunch of shows will know exactly what I'm talking about here. But short version, there is, in general, absolutely not a market in healthcare. There's no healthcare market, especially relative to hospital prices or hospital quality—if anyone can even agree on what quality means. Same thing largely applies on the pharma side of the supply chain as well.

If all of this about markets and the healthcare industry is sounding intriguing but confusing, listen to episodes 490, 491, and 492 with Shane Cerone; Sam Flanders, MD; and Elizabeth Mitchell and you will be totally up to speed.

Shane Cerone: Hi, this is Shane Cerone with Kada Health. I like to think of Relentless Health Value as a solution center. A unique place where industry insiders and experts gather to break down the failures of our nation's health system and talk honestly about the problems we confront and the solutions we need.

It's a rare place where you hear strategies that are actually being used to drive the changes we all want and need to see in the industry.

Stacey: Here's the bottom line who I want to thank relative to this no market business. You're in two groups. Those of you who help self-insured employers and unions who, like it or not, are the ultimate purchasers for 160 million Americans, because the purchaser has to be the demand curve for there to be a market that rationalizes prices and quality.

You not only need a supply curve; you need a demand curve so the invisible hands can find that point where those two lines cross.

But look, you can't get sellers. This is as ridiculous as it sounds. You can't get sellers to get buyers to not buy if the seller raises their prices above what the seller thinks the buyer shouldn't be willing to buy it at. Ridiculous.

Okay … one exception aside—and I only mention it because this has been living in my brain rent-free for at least, I don't know, 10 years—there was that one time, not at band camp but at the annual Blacksmith Charity Pig Roast Pig Iron Fest. (I know. I get around.) Anyway, long after the bar opened, it came time for the charity auction. The auctioneer/blacksmith gets up there. And if you've ever seen those Drunk History shows, this was extremely similar … just drunk auctioneering.

Here we have a Uri Hofi hammer in fine condition. Bidding starts at $400. Who would pay $400 for this hammer? Let's start at $50. Oh, I'll put in a bid. I bid $50. Who's in for $55? Was it hella entertaining? Yes. Did a friend I dragged along wind up purchasing a two-foot-long solid steel decorative nail? Well, yes … she did.

I say all this to say, in real life, for prices to be rationalized, the demand curve has to exist robustly and elastically and not just when the auctioneer happens to be a blacksmith who just happens to be very drunk.

But look, as I said in multiple episodes, is it fair that employers find themselves needing to be the demand curve in order to create a healthcare market? Are they capable? Is this optimal?

All are excellent, open questions and, to be fair, beside the point, because as it stands, our entire healthcare sector is built to function around the construct that there is, in fact, a market and there's not a market without a demand curve.

So, thanks to all of you who are or help, for real now, employers and unions be all the demand curve they can be.

Cora Opsahl: Hi, this is Cora Opsahl, 32BJ Health Fund director. Relentless Health Value is the place to get a deep understanding of all aspects of healthcare. I used it to learn about the complex system of healthcare years ago, and I still learn something new almost every episode.

I truly believe it is the collective action of the Relentless Health Value tribe that will change healthcare for the better.

Stacey: I also just wanna say thanks much to all you doctors and clinicians and indie practices and others who offer options.

A market requires competition to work. So, thanks to all of you who work so hard to be those options. I am so grateful to all of you and offer you this basket of my thanks as a patient, as a member, and a U.S. and state taxpayer. Thank you for helping out the demand curve.

Chris Deacon: Hi, I'm Chris Deacon with VerSan Consulting. If you're listening to Relentless Health Value, we already have something important in common. You care about fixing what's broken in healthcare. This isn't just a podcast I tune into. It's one that I revisit, reflect on, and highly recommend.

Stacey's conversations don't stop at the mic. They spark ideas, challenge assumptions, and fuel the work so many of us are doing to fix healthcare.

If you're here for real change, you're in the right place. Subscribe to the podcast, sign up for the newsletter, and let's keep the momentum going. Thanks for listening.

Stacey: Here's the fourth basket of thanks I want to hand out here: to those of you who have contributed financial support to the Relentless Health Value podcast.

And look, this is weird to go off on because originally, 10 years ago, I kind of poked away at this passion project of mine off the side of my desk with very little editing, very little production, and very little fanfare.

But now the show is, well, it's a pretty big show; and with that comes additional real expenses. Couple that with the fact that I'm just a maniac about not taking advertising from folks I do not want to take advertising from. And I'm just being totally honest that it can be really hard, which is why I am so thankful to those of you who offer your financial support.

We definitely have a great advantage because Tom Nash, our producer, sound engineer, and editor extraordinaire is also a volunteer; and I am so, again, thankful for that. Could not do this without him or the rest of our amazing Relentless Health Value team who helps us off the sides of their Aventria desks. This includes Sandra Arts, Kathleen Kurtz, Hannah Cassel, Eric Hoch, David Umla, Tasha Cerny, Marko Etar, Lorraine Davis.

I'm also so thankful for those of you who have donated enough to cover or almost cover the cost of one episode. Many who make these donations are eager for us to address a particular topic that they think is interesting for you, Relentless Health Value listeners.

And if that topic aligns with ones that we think you would like to hear about, it is definitely something I knew from the very beginning would be a win-win to invite these individuals to be guests.

But one thing I did not anticipate, actually, was how having guests who are so deeply in the tribe with enough conviction to be willing to contribute financially, just how much that conviction adds up to some really good episodes and furthers the sense of community that at least I feel.

Then lastly, thank yous in this basket go to the number of you who have signed up for a monthly contribution. Wow, you are amazing! I am sure I am going to finally, I've been threatening this for a while, but really I am at this time working on setting up some Zoom calls so we all can get to know each other a little bit better.

I'm saving the biggest basket of thank yous for last, and these thank yous go out to all of you listening—and sure, thank you for listening—but even more, thank you for making what we talk about on these shows actionable. Thank you for doing what you do for members and patients every single day. You are why I continue to plug away at this each and every week.

Happy Thanksgiving, really, from the bottom of my heart. Thank you so much for being here.

Also mentioned in this episode are Aventria Health Group; Rob Marty; Dan Greenleaf; Kelly Kirby Fisher; Vivian Ho, PhD; Chris Skisak, PhD; Houston Business Coalition on Health; Texas Employers for Affordable Health Care; Cora Opsahl; Shane Cerone; Sam Flanders, MD; Elizabeth Mitchell; Kada Health; 32 BJ Health Fund; Chris Deacon; VerSan Consulting; Tom Nash; Sandra Arts; Kathleen Kurtz; Hannah Cassel; Eric Hoch; David Umla; Tasha Cerny; Marko Etar; Lorraine Davis; and Mark Cuban.

For a list of healthcare industry acronyms and terms that may be unfamiliar to you, click here.

For more information, go to aventriahealth.com.

Each week on Relentless Health Value, Stacey uses her voice and thought leadership to provide insights for healthcare industry decision makers trying to do the right thing. Each show features expert guests who break down the twists and tricks in the medical field to help improve outcomes and lower costs across the care continuum. Relentless Health Value is a top 100 podcast on iTunes in the medicine category and reaches tens of thousands of engaged listeners across the healthcare industry.

In addition to hosting Relentless Health Value, Stacey is co-president of QC-Health, a benefit corporation finding cost-effective ways to improve the health of Americans. She is also co-president of Aventria Health Group, a consultancy working with clients who endeavor to form collaborations with payers, providers, Pharma, employer organizations, or patient advocacy groups.

01:25 First thank you: to those who do not succumb to healthcare narcissism.

01:36 INBW39 with Stacey.

02:51 INBW37 with Stacey.

03:00 EP399 and EP400 with Stacey.

05:40 Second thank you: to those willing to pay it forward.

05:53 EP489 with Dan Greenleaf.

08:12 EP452 with Cora Opsahl.

08:38 Third thank you: to those who aid the demand curve in healthcare.

09:14 EP490 with Shane Cerone and Sam Flanders, MD.

09:16 EP491 with Elizabeth Mitchell.

09:17 EP492 with Sam Flanders, MD, and Shane Cerone.

09:49 Why healthcare needs a demand curve.

13:34 Fourth thank you: to those who have contributed financial support to the Relentless Health Value podcast.

15:47 The final thank you: to the listeners.

For more information, go to aventriahealth.com.

Our host, Stacey Richter, discusses #demandcurve and gives thanks on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #financialhealth #patientoutcomes #primarycare #digitalhealth #healthcareleadership #healthcaretransformation #healthcareinnovation

Recent past interviews:

Click a guest's name for their latest RHV episode!

Olivia Ross, John Quinn, Dr Sam Flanders and Shane Cerone (EP492), Elizabeth Mitchell (EP491), Shane Cerone and Dr Sam Flanders (Part 1), Dan Greenleaf (Part 2), Dan Greenleaf (Part 1), Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl, Kevin Lyons (Part 2), Kevin Lyons (Part 1)

Podurama

Home

Trending

Personal

Your Podcasts

New Episodes

My Files

Favourite Episodes

Tags (Folders)

Recently Played

Bookmarks

Followed Playlists

INBW43: Five Baskets of Thank Yous to Hand Out, Along With a Plug for Big Demand Curve Energy

Relentless Health Value

AI Chapters

AI Insights

Reviews