This week, Sean talks with Emily Baker-White, author of <a href="https://wwnorton.com/books/every-screen-on-the-planet/about-the-book/product-details">Every Screen on the Planet</a>, about why TikTok feels uniquely addictive, how it turned social media into a push-not-pull entertainment feed, and what happens when human editors inside the company can override the algorithm.

A few days after they spoke, TikTok was in the headlines again. So they jumped on a follow-up call to unpack the latest twists in the saga of who will ultimately control the app's US-operations.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)
Guest: Emily Baker-White, reporter and author of <a href="https://wwnorton.com/books/every-screen-on-the-planet/about-the-book/product-details">Every Screen on the Planet: The War Over TikTok</a>

The Gray Area has been nominated for a Signal Listener’s Choice Award. Vote for The Gray Area here: <a href="https://vote.signalaward.com/PublicVoting#/2025/shows/genre/thought-leadership">https://vote.signalaward.com/PublicVoting#/2025/shows/genre/thought-leadership</a>

We’d love to hear from you. Email us at tga@voxmail.com or leave a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your questions and feedback help us make a better show.

Watch full episodes of The Gray Area on <a href="https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ8cMiYb3G5es0koN0pk4teLvrhbEc7BH&feature=shared">YouTube</a>.
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