Since announcing his decision to retire last year, North Carolina Republican Sen. Thom Tillis has become a kind of thorn in MAGA’s side, holding up appointments and voicing criticisms about legislation favored by President Trump. But his resistance raises a perennial question about Republicans in the Trump era: Why do lawmakers only push back when they’re on the way out?

Kara and Sen. Tillis talk about his concerns over the Trump administration’s handling of the war in Iran; why he thinks newly confirmed Secretary of Homeland Security Markwayne Mullin will be an improvement over his predecessor, Kristi Noem; and why Tillis aims his criticisms at Trump’s advisers rather than Trump himself. They also talk about his worries about the upcoming midterms and where he thinks the party is headed after Trump leaves office. 

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