Today we have planetary scientist Dr. Pascal Lee and STEM-Talk host Dr. Ken Ford in a wide-ranging conversation about NASA’s ambitions to return humans to the Moon as a stepping stone to sending astronauts to Mars.
Pascal is making his third appearance on STEM-Talk. Much of his research focuses on asteroids, impact craters, and the future human exploration of Mars. Pascal and Ken have a lively discussion about the growing momentum for space exploration.
Pascal is a researcher at the SETI Institute, a not-for-profit NASA program focused on searching for extraterrestrial intelligence in an effort to understand and explain the origin and nature of life in the universe. He also is the co-founder and chairman of the Mars Institute, and director of the Haughton-Mars Project at NASA Ames Research Center.
Last year, Pascal received significant news coverage for his discovery of a giant volcano along with a possible sheet of buried glacier ice in the eastern part of Mars&#8217; Tharsis volcanic province. This was the first geological find of this magnitude since the other major volcanos on Mars were discovered back in the 1970s.
Show notes:
[00:03:06] Ken welcomes Pascal back to STEM-Talk and starts our interview by mentioning the developments in space exploration over the past few years, including civilian space missions, NASA’s Artemis program which aims to send humans back to the moon, and commitments to a manned mission to Mars. Given Pascal’s career in advancement of space exploration, Ken asks if Pascal is excited by these recent developments.
[00:04:43] Ken explains that for a couple of decades Pascal has spent his summers visiting Devon Island in the Canadian arctic archipelago, which is the largest uninhabited land on Earth. When Pascal was last on STEM-Talk, his annual trip to Devon Island was cancelled due to COVID-19. Devon Island has unique geological characteristics that are in some ways similar to those on Mars. Since 2001, Devon Isalnd has been the home of the Haughton Mars Project (HMP). Ken asks Pascal to talk about the advances in this project since his last appearance on STEM-Talk.
[00:07:59] Ken mentions that while much conversation has been centered on a human trip to Mars, a mission to return humans to the Moon and establish a permanent base is a more immediately feasible goal in the short term. Ken asks Pascal to talk about the importance and significance of such a mission.
[00:12:06] On the topic of a Moon base, Ken explains that NASA’s Artemis project aims to send humans to the south pole of the Moon. Pascal has written a paper on that topic titled “<a href="https://isdc.nss.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/ISDC-2024-Moon-2001-Lee-Clavius-FINAL.pdf">An Off-Polar Site Option for the NASA Artemis Space Camp</a>.” Ken asks Pascal what he sees as the primary weakness in the south pole location.
[00:20:25] Ken agrees with Pascal’s perspective on sending humans to the lunar south pole, and the two discuss the problems with focusing human space exploration on romantic ideas such as “living off the land.”
[00:22:24] Ken follows up on the previous questions by mentioning that in Pascal’s aforementioned paper, he suggests setting up a lunar base at the floor of the Clavius crater. Ken asks Pascal to talk about Clavius and why it is a potentially good permanent location for a moon base.
[00:27:56] Ken asks Pascal how confident he and the community at large is in the Sophia finding of water.
[00:29:00] Ken notes that contemporary interest in human space exploration appears tied to current geopolitical issues, much like the first space race between the US and USSR. Today, interest in space travel is closely linked with relations between the US and China. Ken asks Pascal to discuss this and how he believes the US should view this current situation.
[00:35:43] Ken asks Pascal what he knows about the China’s current plans for a lunar mission.
[00:34:36] Ken talks about a meeting at IHMC that addressed power-beaming to the lunar surface.
[00:39:01] Ken notes that there is a lot of talk these days about not not only traveling to Mars, but also colonizing Mars. Ken asks Pascal where he believes this sentiment is coming from and what are some of the challenges associated with colonizing Mars.
[00:46:48] Ken notes that last year Elon Musk made an announcement to his SpaceX employees that he expects 1 million people to be living on Mars in the next 20 years. Ken asks Pascal what his thoughts are on this.
[00:53:28] Ken asks Pascal to talk about a paper he published discussing a previously unrecognized volcano on Mars. Given that it was generally accepted for decades that all the volcanos had been accounted for, Ken asks Pascal to talk about the story of his recent discovery.
[01:02:44] Ken pivots to a discussion of the Moons of Mars, specifically Phobos, asking Pascal to talk about the nature of this Moon.
[01:07:42] Ken mentions that docking on Phobos and then going from Phobos to Mars would likely be a safer strategy for early Mars missions than landing directly on Mars from Earth.
[01:12:30] Ken starts a discussion about Perseverance, as well as the new Japanese mission that may bring back Mars rocks from Phobos. Ken asks Pascal about Perseverance’s collection Mars’ of rock samples that NASA plans for a mission to bring those Mars rocks to Earth. Ken asks it is worth the cost of a mission to collect these samples and what we might learn if we are successful in getting these samples to Earth.
[01:17:09] Ken wraps up our interview asking Pascal what year it was that he started working at NASA Ames, which turns out to be the same year Ken started working at NASA Ames.
Links:
<a href="https://www.seti.org/our-scientists/pascal-lee">Pascal Lee bio</a>
<a href="https://www.ihmc.us/">Learn more about IHMC</a>
<a href="https://www.ihmc.us/stemtalks/">STEM-Talk homepage</a>
<a href="https://www.ihmc.us/groups/kford/">Ken Ford bio</a>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_M._Ford">Ken Ford Wikipedia page</a>

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Episode 180: Pascal Lee on NASA’s ambitions to send humans to the Moon and Mars

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