“You can’t implement skills-based hiring by flipping a switch. It’s about changing mindsets, systems, and the language your organization uses to describe talent.”-Ashley WallvoordIn this episode of Psych Tech @ Work, me and my AI co-host, Mayda Tokens, welcome fellow I/O psychologist (and LSU Tiger!) <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleywalvoord/">Ashley Walvoord</a>, Senior Vice President of Talent at Verizon.We are joined by my AI co-host Mayda Tokens who continues to impress at times and but showing a tendency to be pretty boring at other times and always telling really bad jokes (I think the API to Chat-GPT 5o gets a very different sense of humor than the consumer version).I reached out to Ashley after seeing her SIOP presentation about Verizon’s skills based hiring (and organizational transformation) program. Her and her fellow presenters-<a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/max-mcdaniel-3118971a/">Max McDaniel </a>(Verizon)<a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinanorriswatts/">Christina-Norris Watts </a>(J & J)<a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruth-imose-phd-63340391/">Ruth Imose</a> (J & J)<a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonfrizzell/">Jason Frizel</a> (Walmart)provided amazing insights into their company’s’ amazing and inspiring skills based hiring programs.The hype around skills based hiring these days makes it seem easy. But talk is cheap- and doing skills based hiring right takes a total ALL IN approach. - one that is rooted in the commitment to become a true skills based organization.Ashley has lived this life and her experience provides an awesome preview of how one of the world’s largest organizations is reimagining hiring and development through skills and AI. We are all lucky to have her on the show!Verizon’s transformation provides a rare look at how enterprise-scale companies operationalize skills-based hiring while navigating the practical realities of change management, technology integration, and workforce readiness.SummaryThis conversation bridges strategy and execution, offering a clear-eyed view of how a Fortune 50 company is aligning people, process, and technology around skills. Ashley shares the lessons learned from Verizon’s commitment to a multi-year, organization wide transformation. A journey with many whistlestops along the way— from defining skills frameworks to embedding them in hiring and internal mobility.Key Themes1. Building Skills Infrastructure at ScaleAshley explains how skills-based hiring starts long before implementation — requiring shared language, governance, and validation across the enterprise. Verizon’s approach focuses on sustainability and integration rather than one-off pilots.2. Human Oversight in an AI-Driven SystemAI plays a growing role in matching and mobility, but Ashley underscores that human judgment remains central. The goal isn’t automation for its own sake, but augmentation — using technology to help people make better, more equitable decisions.3. Culture Change Through Data TransparencyVerizon’s success depends on building trust with employees and leaders by showing the “why” behind skills data and AI insights. Visibility into how skills are used for development and promotion helps drive adoption.4. Enterprise Challenges and Lessons Learned Ashley shares the realities of scaling change: aligning functions, managing vendor relationships, and ensuring consistency across geographies. Her advice is practical — start small, demonstrate impact, and scale what works.5. Future Vision for Skills and AI in Talent Ashley envisions a future where skills become the connective tissue between learning, mobility, and performance — and where AI acts as a trusted partner in enabling opportunity at every level.Takeaways* Enterprise-scale transformation requires governance, not just technology.* AI can accelerate fairness and insight, but must remain transparent and human-centered.* Data visibility is the key to cultural adoption — employees must see personal benefit.* Scaling skills frameworks demands partnership between HR, technology, and business leadership.The future of work will depend on how we align AI, human judgment, and purpose at scale. And a commitment to verifying and managing skills at scale. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://charleshandler.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">charleshandler.substack.com</a>

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