The time has come to settle the score – are cats cuter than babies? Join us for an evidence-informed artistic analysis of the aesthetics of cats and how and why we love to depict them in illustration, animation and graphic art. (And why cats are, indeed, cuter than babies.)
In this fun, feline and fact-filled episode, listen in on how and why cats became the muses for one illustrator of grumpy cats - Natalia Garcez - and a source of inspiration for hundreds of thousands of families across the world. Joining Natalia is digital artist and YouTube star Ergojosh who breaks down the “cat face theory” circulating on TikTok and why Disney and Pixar’s production teams may favor cat facial anatomy for cute inspiration. And join host Captain Kitty (a.k.a. Amanda B.) as she leverages her Cat Oracle Deck for artistic, intellectual and even spiritual guidance with the help of Catnip Magazine’s Anja Charbonneau.
Special thanks to Broccoli Magazine for providing the team a Cat Oracle Deck.
Support the podcast at <a href='https://ko-fi.com/6degreesofcats'>https://ko-fi.com/6degreesofcats</a> for as little as $1 / month for stickers, early access to new episodes and behind the scenes audio. View the show notes and more on The Captain’s Log, the companion podcast newsletter here: <a href='http://linktr.ee/6degreesofcats'>linktr.ee/6degreesofcats</a>.
And check out this supplementary episode:
<ul>
<li style="font-weight:400;"><a href='https://episodes.fm/1669849217/episode/dGhlNmRlZ3JlZXNvZmNhdHNwb2RjYXN0LnBvZGJlYW4uY29tLzdiYzMyOTlmLTJkZmItM2NmMi04ZWYzLTg1YmI5YjFjYzIwNQ'>Cats Are the Consummate Domesticate: Origins and Evolution of Our Feline Friends [Pilot]</a></li>
</ul>
About the experts:
<ul>
<li>Anja Chabonneau is the Editor in Chief and Creative Director of Broccoli Magazine, a publisher of unusual delights including Catnip Magazine, Broccoli Magazine and the Cat Oracle Deck. To purchase a Cat Oracle Deck, visit <a href='https://broccolimag.com/products/the-cat-oracle-33-card-deck-guidebook?variant=45668986421505'>https://broccolimag.com</a> and follow @catnip_mag and @broccoli_mag on Instagram.</li>
<li>Natalia Garcez is a Brazilian-born graphic designer and<a href='https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8ba5h_KYjn/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA=='> illustrator of grumpy cats</a> based on Copenhagen whose Instagram account, @casagiraceramics (formerly “chonkygrompy”) inspired hundreds of thousands of children to paint chunky, grumpy cats with their parents. Learn more about Natalia by following her Instagram account or visiting <a href='https://www.nataliagarcez.com/'>https://www.nataliagarcez.com</a>.</li>
<li>Joshua “Ergojosh” Stephens is a digital artist specializing in character design who educates his 700k+ YouTube subscribers with videos that have been seen over 54 million times. Follow Ergojosh on <a href='https://www.youtube.com/@ergojosh/videos'>YouTube</a> or @ergo.josh on Instagram, and visit his website on at <a href='http://ergojosh.com'>ergojosh.com</a> to learn more about his online courses on digital illustration.</li>
</ul>
Producer, writer, editor, sound designer, host, basically everything*
<ul>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Captain Kitty (Amanda B.)</li>
</ul>
* with co-executive producers Binky, Snuggles and Peanut
 
Additional voices include:
<ul>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Binky, Snuggles and Peanut _^..^_</li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Edward Anthony (@itsmyunzii) </li>
</ul>
Music:
<ul>
<li style="font-weight:400;"><a href='http://leathered.bandcamp.com'>Leathered: "Look Alive" © 2025</a></li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Additional sound effects from <a href='http://pixabay.com'>Pixabay.com</a></li>
</ul>
Logo design:
<ul>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Edward Anthony © 2025 (Instagram: itsmyunzii)</li>
</ul>
Research used:
<ul>
<li style="font-weight:400;">chonkygrompy [@chonkygrompy]. (n.d.). A very special client ordered a painting of all her current … [Video]. TikTok. https://www.tiktok.com/@chonkygrompy/video/7254117947654901018?lang=en</li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Clark, F. (Host). (2023, August 1). Art for mental health: The well-being benefits of practicing art [Audio podcast episode]. In [AMA Update]. https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/physician-health/art-mental-health-well-being-benefits-practicing-art-frank</li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Ergojosh. (2019, December 5). Draw faces easily! [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/KdpkxdP9Thw</li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Glocker, M. L., Langleben, D. D., Ruparel, K., Loughead, J. W., Gur, R. C., & Sachser, N. (2009, March). Baby schema in infant faces induces cuteness perception and motivation for caretaking in adults. Ethology : formerly Zeitschrift fur Tierpsychologie. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3260535/ </li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Goodwin, B. C., Browne, M., & Rockloff, M. (2015, December 1). Measuring preference for supernormal over natural rewards : A two-dimensional anticipatory pleasure scale. Evolutionary psychology : an international journal of evolutionary approaches to psychology and behavior. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10480800/ </li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Hansen, K. (2023, September 1). These famous cartoon cats stand the test of time (and cuteness). BuzzFeed. https://www.buzzfeed.com/kaileyhansen/famous-cartoon-cats </li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Kringelbach, M. L., Lehtonen, A., Squire, S., Harvey, A. G., Craske, M. G., Holliday, I. E., Green, A. L., Aziz, T. Z., Hansen, P. C., Cornelissen, P. L., & Stein, A. (2008, February 7). A specific and rapid neural signature for parental instinct. PLOS ONE. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0001664 </li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Kringelbach, M. L., Stein, A., & Stark, E. (2016, July 4). How cute things hijack our brains and drive behaviour. The Conversation. <a href='https://theconversation.com/how-cute-things-hijack-our-brains-and-drive-behaviour-61942'>https://theconversation.com/how-cute-things-hijack-our-brains-and-drive-behaviour-61942 </a></li>
<li style="font-weight:400;">Varnum, M. E. W. (2023, January 15). The powerful psychology of cuteness. <a href='https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unserious-psychology/202212/whats-cute-and-why-it-matters#:~:text=Drawing%20on%20work%20by%20Konrad,perceive%20someone%20or%20something%20as'>Psychology Today.</a></li>
</ul>

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Cats Are Cuter than Babies: Cats and Art with Catnip Mag Publisher Anja Charbonneau, YouTube star Ergojosh and Artist Natalia Garcez

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