Why do only 9% of people and companies grow stronger during crises? According to Harvard Business School professor and author Ranjay Gulati, the answer isn’t intelligence—it’s courage. In this episode, AJ and Johnny unpack what it means to act in the face of fear, not in the absence of it.
Drawing from decades of research and Ranjay’s new book The Soul of Courage, the conversation explores why we’re hardwired to freeze under uncertainty, how the most courageous people “resource” themselves to act, and what separates bold leadership from reckless risk-taking. From stories of NASA pilots and nuclear engineers to everyday professionals stepping up under pressure, this episode is a masterclass in practical courage—how to develop it, share it, and lead with it when everything’s on the line.
What to Listen For
[00:01:38] Why 91% of companies retreat in recessions—and 9% win
[00:03:06] The psychology of “loss avoidance” and our addiction to safety
[00:05:00] The difference between risk and uncertainty—and why the brain freezes
[00:07:08] The Fear Equation: redefining courage as action in the face of fear
[00:08:44] The Stanford snake experiment and building a “can-do” mindset
[00:11:00] How domain mastery and belief from others fuel self-efficacy
[00:14:47] Bold vs. reckless: Aristotle’s timeless lesson on measured risk
[00:18:54] Courage is not a solo act: the importance of your “support squad”
[00:24:32] The link between deep purpose and enduring courage
[00:26:31] How to “act your way into knowing” when data is unclear
[00:30:03] The science of calm—rituals that regulate fear and focus
[00:33:05] Rewriting your personal story to unlock courage
[00:38:38] How charisma inspires collective courage in others


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Episode resources:
<a href="https://ranjaygulati.com/">⁠⁠RanjayGulati.com⁠</a>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Bold-Surprising-Everyday/dp/0063394812">⁠How to Be Bold⁠</a>
Check in with AJ and Johnny!
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajharbinger/">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AJ on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-dzubak-b5182687/">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Johnny on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>
<a href="https://www.instagram.com/ajharbinger/">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AJ on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>
<a href="https://www.instagram.com/aocjohnny">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Johnny on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>
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