Christopher Rufo is arguably the most successful activist of the MAGA era. He rose to prominence fighting D.E.I. initiatives and critical race theory. In President Trump’s second term, he’s had a huge influence on policy, from Trump’s executive orders against D.E.I. and the attacks on the Department of Education to the ICE and C.B.P. deployments to Minneapolis.
Rufo, helpfully, calls his shots. He has published a guide, “The New Right Activism: A Manifesto for the Counterrevolution,” in which he argued for the value of “agitprop” and counseled that “political life moves on narrative, emotion, scandal, anger, hope, and faith — on irrational, or at least subrational, feelings.” But more recently, in his writing and on the podcast he co-hosts, “Rufo & Lomez,” he seems worried about the new right he has helped build: its attraction to conspiracy theories, its racialist thinking, its internal fissures.
So I wanted to have him on the show to talk about the problems he sees on his side, but also to interrogate whether he may have scored short-term victories while seeding profound long-term problems.
Rufo is a senior fellow and director of the initiative on critical race theory at the Manhattan Institute. He’s a contributing editor of City Journal and the author of “America’s Cultural Revolution: How the Radical Left Conquered Everything.”
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
“<a href="https://im1776.com/manifesto-counterrevolution/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The New Right Activism</a>” by Christopher Rufo
“<a href="https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/08/18/the-number" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Number</a>” by David D. Kirkpatrick
“<a href="https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/the-unraveling-of-a-cat-tale" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The unraveling of a cat tale</a>” by Jacqueline Sweet
Book recommendations
<a href="https://www.encounterbooks.com/books/unmasking-administrative-state/?srsltid=AfmBOoo1ziiZ-O8Bk2tGHvBhzYhJE_pOrVtihgqmsQqFXqpiGQ4lX_Ne" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Unmasking the Administrative State</a> by John Marini
<a href="https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/stacy-schiff/the-revolutionary-samuel-adams/9780316441094/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Revolutionary</a> by Stacy Schiff
<a href="https://www.lumebooks.co.uk/book/the-managerial-revolution-what-is-happening-in-the-world/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Managerial Revolution</a> by James Burnham
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast</a>, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs</a>.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker and Julie Beer. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Mixing by Pat McCusker, Efim Shapiro, and Johnny Simon. Our recording engineer is Johnny Simon. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Shows is Annie-Rose Strasser. Transcript editing by Kate Wilkinson and Marlaine Glicksman.
Subscribe today at <a href="http://nytimes.com/podcasts">nytimes.com/podcasts</a> or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher">https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher</a>. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See <a href="https://pcm.adswizz.com">pcm.adswizz.com</a> for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Podurama

Home

Trending

Personal

Your Podcasts

New Episodes

My Files

Favourite Episodes

Tags (Folders)

Recently Played

Bookmarks

Followed Playlists

Chris Rufo Thinks the Right Can Control This. I Don’t.

The Ezra Klein Show

AI Chapters

AI Insights

Reviews