A regulated exchange suing its own regulator almost never happens. The hosts trace why CME did it, and why the CFTC may have better odds than crypto Twitter thinks.

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CME has sued the CFTC, its own primary regulator, a rare move for a regulated exchange, landing the day after longtime CEO Terry Duffy announced he would step down. The trigger: the CFTC's approval of a narrowly tailored Kalshi Bitcoin perpetual, the first true perp cleared onshore.
Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le untangle CME's two arguments, that perps are swaps rather than futures, and that the agency acted arbitrarily by skipping notice and comment and reversing its own prior position in a single day. They weigh whether the case can win, and why the process may matter more than the outcome.
From there, the panel digs into Cboe's prediction-style S&P 500 contracts headed to Schwab's customers and the binary-option-versus-swap line. With a recent poll finding 43% of Americans believe AI could "literally end the human race," Jessi argues crypto can't afford to dismiss the people who become its juries, judges, and voters.
The conversation covers the CME lawsuit, prediction markets arriving on Wall Street, a viral $1 to $5 million crypto legal job, and the growing public backlash against AI.

Hosts:
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<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessi-brooks-8289ab32/">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a><a href="https://x.com/kkirkbos">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.
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<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessi-brooks-8289ab32/">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital<a href="https://x.com/kkirkbos">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>
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<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessi-brooks-8289ab32/">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a><a href="https://x.com/TuongvyLe12">⁠Vy Le⁠</a> - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda
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</ul>
Timestamps
🏛️ 01:59 Why a regulated exchange suing its own regulator almost never happens
⚖️ 04:38 CME's two arguments, and why "future delivery" could reach the Supreme Court
🧠 12:51 Why process and durability may matter more than the outcome
🚪 19:54 How the Kalshi order opened the floodgates for self-certified perps
📊 23:48 Cboe's S&P 500 prediction contracts head to Schwab, and the binary-option-versus-swap line
🛡️ 33:27 Cape: Stop SIM swaps and get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at<a href="https://cape.co/unchained"> https://cape.co/unchained</a>
💙 34:22 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at<a href="https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com"> https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com</a>
💼 35:05 The Pump.fun chief legal officer job and its $1 to $5 million salary
🤖 37:02 Why the AI vibe check has turned bleak and why crypto should care
🐶 47:10 This week's good news: the Marlins hunt for the hot dog meme Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

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